341 next week

[JellyBeany]

We filed Ch7 01/14/2022. Our 341 hearing is set for 2/15/22, telephonic.

Yesterday the attorney called us to go through the procedure for the hearing. She said all our paperwork is in good order and she anticipates things will go smoothly.

I am not worried about the 341, but I am eager to see it in my rearview mirror.

I filed Ch13 in late 2019 and ended up having to dismiss and re-file Ch7 due to my spouse's unemployment. So, I've been through a 341 before, except when I did it before it was in person so I am hopeful the telephonic one will be even smoother.

Our attorney says the Trustee assigned to our case is "easygoing" and "nice" and will likely not attempt to go after the unprotected equity in one of the cars. The amount of this equity is about $1400. She said worst case scenario is we may have to come up with most of that in cash to pay the Trustee in lieu of surrendering the vehicle. She said she thinks the amount is low enough that it's not a big risk, so we shall see. If we have to pay the Trustee then we will handle it.

My husband has had several job interviews this week and another one this afternoon. Fingers crossed for a brighter future!

[bornfree2]

Good luck! I know how nerve racking this can be. I always try to think about the evening of stressful day. The day is over, whatever went down went down, and tomorrow the sun will rise again. Safe landing is coming despite the turbulence ahead.

[JellyBeany]

Update.

341 originally scheduled for 2/15/22. We appeared via telephone and all seemed to go just fine EXCEPT the Trustee asked for a document (IRA distribution record) we had not submitted, as our attorney had not advised us to do so and we assumed our attorney had everything handled. Other than that the 341 seemed to go without any problems. The Trustee was nice enough and it wasn't scary at all.

The 341 was continued to 3/21/22 (today). Our attorney told us we did NOT need to appear, so we did not. She just called us to let us know the 341 has been continued again to 4/19/22, because the Trustee has not had time to review the additional document we submitted. She let us know the Trustee has had a "personal issue" (she hinted around it was a death in his family) that prevented him from reviewing the documents. She told us a number of his cases have been continued for this reason, not just ours.

Our attorney says we will likely get the discharge automatically, but the case won't actually close until the Trustee does whatever is his part of the arrangement.

The next continued date is exactly 9 weeks, or 63 days, from the first date of the originally scheduled 341.

I'm not sure what to think. Do we just keep our heads down and proceed as normal? Our attorney seems to think this is no big deal.

[justbroke]

The discharge comes regardless. The discharge comes 60 days after the "first scheduled" 341 Meeting. The only way to stop the discharge is to file a complaint to deny the discharge. In your case, it doesn't appear that the Chapter 7 trustee or the United States Trustee is trying to get your case dismissed.

Continuances are normal. As I wrote, this doesn't affect the discharge. Just delays the closing of your case.

[JellyBeany]

justbroke Thank you! I guess for now I will just assume everything is on track and our discharge will come on schedule. 4 weeks to go! Thank you for your response.

[JellyBeany]

Update. Today was the continued 341 hearing. We were advised we did not need to appear.

Just got this email from my atty:

"I appeared today to find out what else the Trustee needed. He said he was still reviewing the documents and needed to continue the case to 5/24 at 11am. I also told him that I sent your 2021 tax returns to his office. I will let you know if you need to appear at the hearing."

WTF? This is now the THIRD continuance of our 341. Why would the Trustee still need to review our documents? We submitted *everything*. After our first 341 he wanted ONE additional document which we submitted that same day.

I'm trying to remain calm. But this seems irregular.

[justbroke]

The Trustee can continue a 341 Meeting until it is satisfied (the requirements). This does include documentation. It does not affect the date of your discharge. Your discharge will still come after the 60-days elapse from the first scheduled 341 Meeting.

This actually happens from time to time and should not considered abnormal. The Trustee is trying to determine whether you're an asset case and/or whether the Trustee wants to pursue assets. While a third continuance happens less than either one or two continuances, it's not absurd.

As I wrote before, continued 341 Meetings are a normal part of the process. It appears that your Trustee had to be away for personal reasons and this delayed their required review of your case. Regardless of whether or not the Trustee finds assets, your case will still be discharged on schedule. I estimate that you should have been eligible for your discharge as of this past Monday (4/18/2022). Hopefully you did complete your second course and that was filed with the court.

(Your were eligible 60 days from your 2/15/2022 "first scheduled" 341 Meeting. That date would have been 4/16/2022. However, that fell on a weekend so it gets moved to the first date that the court would be opened after that 4/16/2022 (Saturday) date. This means that your 60-days ended yesterday, Monday, April 18, 2022. You are not eligible for discharge.)

I'd be looking out for the discharge. It may even happen today.

Remember. The discharge is the prize.

(If you have access to PACER, you may actually see the discharge already entered.)

[bornfree2]

The problem with Trustee's continuing meetings is the 30 day for objection of exemptions keeps getting kicked down the timeline. Its based on conclusion of 341 and not the first date.

[justbroke]

The problem with Trustee's continuing meetings is the 30 day for objection of exemptions keeps getting kicked down the timeline. Its based on conclusion of 341 and not the first date.

But that is exactly why the Chapter 7 Panel Trustee is continuing the 341 Meeting. It is to determine assets. A Panel Trustee shouldn't just conclude the meeting on the first one, if they haven't done their clear duty to assess, locate, and administer assets.

[bornfree2]

But that is exactly why the Chapter 7 Panel Trustee is continuing the 341 Meeting. It is to determine assets. A Panel Trustee shouldn't just conclude the meeting on the first one, if they haven't done their clear duty to assess, locate, and administer assets.

Yeah but they are not required to file an official end of meeting. Its just left in the wind to their discretion. There should be an expiration date or number of allowed continuances otherwise its limbo land for the debtor.

[justbroke]

Yeah but they are not required to file an official end of meeting. Its just left in the wind to their discretion. There should be an expiration date or number of allowed continuances otherwise its limbo land for the debtor.

No, there shouldn't be a number of allowed continuances. It is there for a reason and it absolutely does not prevent the discharge. The discharge is the prize. The discharge is tied to the "first scheduled" 341 Meeting for a reason. So as to prevent what you call being in limbo. These meetings are continued and sometimes for months.

(Take note that these things are found in the Rules and not in the code. This is probably done for good measure.)

Trust me, and I know I keep repeating this but it deserves repeating. No sane Chapter 7 Panel Trustee, in their right mind, keeps a case open on a whim. If there are no assets, they want to have be dismissed from the case and move on.

[Carmella]

If the trustee had some personal issues and was away I would think all of his cases would be behind so that very well could be a reason he hasn't got to review all of your information since he's playing catch up. Hopefully, it's just a pain in the behind and nothing to worry about.

[bornfree2]

The 'discharge' is a red herring and distraction. I disagree its 'the prize'. The prize is keeping everything you had before filings AND owing nothing to no one.

Having meetings open prevents the exemptions from formalizing. That is unfair to debtor. Because their property is tied up in the estate and they cant begin their fresh start with something - thats the point of exemptions. to have some baseline of property with which to begin a life.

Without the 30 day objection window losing (which triggering event is the closing of the 341), the debtor has nothing of their own to build from.

[justbroke]

That's just it, right. It's not a red herring. The purpose of bankruptcy, whether a Chapter 7, 11, 12, or 13... is to obtain a discharge of debts. It's that simple. (In the case of a Chapter 11 and 13, it's also an adjustment of debts along with a discharge of dischargeable debts.)

The prize is and will always be a discharge of debts. It was never ever about keeping everything you had or even most of what you had. That's not the purpose of a Chapter 7 Liquidation Bankruptcy.

I gladly gave up some property to shed more than $1,100,000 of debt. I kept my eye on the prize. Not on what may or may not be property of the bankruptcy estate.

I know that bankruptcy is a powerful tool. It does have rules. You may have to give up property. Most Chapter 7 cases take 91 days from start to finish (discharge plus close). Some take longer. I would still rather spend 1 year in a pending Chapter 7 than to have to pay back $1,100,000 of debt. Others may differ.

I am glad that you only experienced a Chapter 7. A Chapter 13 is actually keeping the bankruptcy estate open for 3-5 years as you try to pay things back. Nearly everyone would prefer a Chapter 7 liquidation over a Chapter 13 (adjustment of debt/rehabilitation of debtor) any day if they could still save their property.

If you want to outright save your property... file a Chapter 13.

[bornfree2]

It can be argued both ways and a third that includes both desired outcomes - keep all property and be discharged. Of course if one owes more than one has, the discharge is desirable. If one wants to keep property and has zero means of ever paying debt, then keeping property is more important because its day to day survival reality.

I hope I never need to make a choice between 7, 13 again...but if i had a choice, id choose total self liquidation, total exemption, and full discharge.