Car Reaffirmation

[Throwaway92]

Hello,

I am need of some guidance regarding reaffirming a vehicle. I want to keep my vehicle and was advised by my lawyer that it’s best to not reaffirm my loan and just keep paying, since, in his 10 years of practicing in CO the only creditor to repossess after not reaffirming is Ford Motor. My creditor is a credit union.

I am nervous about not reaffirming because with today’s used car prices, the credit union could probably at least break even on selling the vehicle.

Final day for objection (60th day) is Monday September 13th. Questions I have and need guidance on ASAP.

If I reaffirm by Monday, will this somehow extend the objection date? Or will that still stand as the final day for creditor or UST to object?

Can/should I call the credit union directly and ask them what their policy regarding “ride and pay” is?

Thank you in advance!

[justbroke]

I am need of some guidance regarding reaffirming a vehicle. I want to keep my vehicle and was advised by my lawyer that it’s best to not reaffirm my loan and just keep paying, since, in his 10 years of practicing in CO the only creditor to repossess after not reaffirming is Ford Motor. My creditor is a credit union.

What your attorney has told you is the view of the supermajority of people and even most bankruptcy judges. A debtor should not reaffirm any debt unless it is mandatory. By mandatory I mean that the creditor is demanding reaffirmation, redemption, or surrender. There are only a few creditors that demand reaffirmation of a vehicle and Ford Motor Credit is one of them. (Another thing to note is that most credit unions also require reaffirmation, redemption, or surrender.)

I am nervous about not reaffirming because with today’s used car prices, the credit union could probably at least break even on selling the vehicle.

You just said credit union (CU). The CUs are one of the exceptions to the general statement (that most creditors don't require or demand a reaffirmation). Since this reads as though you already filed and your 341 has passed, the question is really has your CU sent you reaffirmation paperwork and/or demanded reaffirmation?

Final day for objection (60th day) is Monday September 13th. Questions I have and need guidance on ASAP. If I reaffirm by Monday, will this somehow extend the objection date? Or will that still stand as the final day for creditor or UST to object?

This would not affect your discharge date.

Can/should I call the credit union directly and ask them what their policy regarding “ride and pay” is?

Only your attorney should contact them since they probably won't talk to you. If your CU never sent a reaffirmation agreement, then that may be their implicit consent to a ride-through. This would be the first time I read of a CU not requiring reaffirmation, redemption, or surrender.

[Throwaway92]

justbroke Thanks! Yes 341 has passed and I’ve been counting down the days (3 left!). The CU did send a reaffirmation agreement that my lawyer didn’t get to me or explain the process till last week, hence the last minute scramble after I did some research.

They didn’t “require” it be signed per-se, but rather asked if I was going to be reaffirming. I would hate to not reaffirm, get repoed, and not only lose some equity in the car, but also get sucked into a terrible loan for an older less reliable vehicle.

[justbroke]

Most CUs require reaffirmation if you want to keep the vehicle. Most of these CUs don't allow a ride-through. I would get clarification as to whether the CU requires reaffirmation in order to keep the vehicle. You need to "enter into the reaffirmation" agreement before that time expires or a court won't accept it. (You can't enter into a reaffirmation agreement after discharge.) So you are right to be concerned.

I would get on top of this today.

[Throwaway92]

justbroke Ive reached out to my lawyer via email to see if he can confirm whether they are “demanding” the reaffirm or not. I’ll call in a few hours if I don’t hear back since time is not on my side.

Let’s say this bleeds into Monday, does the fully executed agreement need to be filed by the end of the day? I say fully executed because the CU hasn’t signed their portion yet, meaning and would have to sign, send back to them to sign, then get it back from them to file. Very unlikely to happen in the same day. Would my lawyer filing my signed portion In the meantime constitute “beating the deadline”?

[justbroke]

It needs to be entered into by the end of the day, but more importantly it must be signed before the discharge is entered. The discharge could come as early as Tuesday (if your 60 days ends on Monday).

The CU doesn't have to sign their portion. Once you sign and your attorney signs off on it, it's basically done. However, if your attorney refuses to sign it, then it could create an issue, but I'm not sure.

That's pretty late timing for the CU to send the reaffirmation agreement just 7 days before the last day to object to discharge. Doesn't give you any time at all.

[Throwaway92]

Last we spoke, attorney said he probably wouldn’t sign it because my budget is upside down.

They didn’t just provide it seven days ago, my attorney only notified me about it last Monday August 30th. The email he forwarded was from the CU dated August 25th and was a “follow up” on a previous email that wasn’t included. So suffice to say he dropped the ball and notified me far later than he should have.

Not sure what he gets out of not signing it, but perhaps he will change his mind and sign in order to make up for his delay and to help me avoid having to drag this out and do a confirmation hearing.

If I sign, he signs, we file before end of day Monday, no hearing or other steps needed, correct?

[justbroke]

When a debtor is represented by an attorney, the attorney is required to check one of the two boxes on the top of the form. The boxes indicate whether or not a hardship would arise if the debtor entered into the agreement. It seems that the attorney things that a hardship DOES exist if you reaffirm. The attorney's refusal to sign is another indication that they don't want to even think about the reaffirmation. This refusal to sign does in fact happen.

The question will be whether or not this will allow a ride-through. I would ask the attorney what will happen if you don't sign and/or if the CU is demanding that it be signed.

A hearing is usually required if it's submitted and the attorney does not sign the form. I can't be specific because I just don't know the process as I haven't had this specific issue. Sometimes, if the form is submitted without the attorney signature, the court will set up a hearing anyhow. For credit unions there are some different rules as to what is acceptable with respect to a reaffirmation agreement.

I would make sure that I spoke with my attorney today (keep calling if necessary), to find out the absolute bottom line. I do understand an attorney's hesitance to sign a reaffirmation agreement, where a CU is involved, because there are special rules for a CU. The attorney may be doing you a favor. I just can't tell or say.

[Throwaway92]

justbroke Thanks for all of the info! Attorney just got back to me. It appears they notified him last week that they are okay with retain and pay. So all of that worry for nothing it seems. Now I will continue to countdown the minutes until 11:59pm Monday…

[justbroke]

EXCELLENT!

This is actually the first time I read where a Credit Union (CU) has allowed a ride-through (a/k/a a retain and pay). It was okay to be worried since you didn't understand, and it appears that it wasn't communicated to you, that the reaffirmation agreement was not required.

I hope you can now enjoy your weekend and get out there... before it starts to snow!

[Barbisi]

Hey jb, you need to check recent weather records for Denver - two days of highs near 100 degrees with high levels of toxic ozone (smog). Yes, "artic" snow is on the near horizon, but there will be at least a couple of more 90+ days with simply lovely smoke ahead. I have been having some awful burning eyes and severe body aches, so unlike some of the Colorado potheads who delight in posting smiley and giddy photos of smoky mountain sunsets, I imagine the day when my prison doors open, and I can drive away to freedom in another state.

[justbroke]

So sad to read about smog and 100F September days... in Denver.

[Barbisi]

Well, jb the local news papers and stations openly acknowledge that ozone and local smoke are now a year round problem that will never go away. Denver as you may have heard, recently recorded the worst air quality in the world, but many local ignoramuses choose to blame California wildfires solely for their daily bad air pollution.
Frankly I don't care what happens here as long as I can get out with out developing lung cancer like my mother.

[dieselman]

Hey jb, you need to check recent weather records for Denver - two days of highs near 100 degrees with high levels of toxic ozone (smog). Yes, "artic" snow is on the near horizon, but there will be at least a couple of more 90+ days with simply lovely smoke ahead. I have been having some awful burning eyes and severe body aches, so unlike some of the Colorado potheads who delight in posting smiley and giddy photos of smoky mountain sunsets, I imagine the day when my prison doors open, and I can drive away to freedom in another state.

Is there a reason as to why your need to always hijack others topics in order to inject your constant and continuing BK and living situation woes?