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    Property Abandonment

    My case began as a Chapter 13 in March 2019 and was converted to Chapter 7 in August 2019. I received a discharge in February 2020. The case is not yet closed - since the discharge at the end of February, the Trustee has worked on collecting assets from me to distribute to creditors. The collection of assets is complete, but the distribution is not yet complete. Creditors have until August to come to the table.

    I looked in Pacer today and noticed that the Trustee filed a Notice of Proposed Abandonment last week for my two vehicles. Both vehicles were being financed at the time of my filing. As I intended to keep both vehicles, the payments were rolled into my monthly Chapter 13 payments. However, after the case converted to Chapter 7 in August 2019, I have not been contacted by either of the lenders at all, and I have not made any payments on either vehicle. Both submitted proofs of claim when I filed. However, when I look at my credit report now I only see one of the accounts listed - and it is listed as Chapter 7 bankruptcy with zero balance. The second car loan doesn't show up at all anywhere on my credit reports. It doesn't show up as a closed account... it's simply gone.

    So I'm trying to figure out what is going to happen with the vehicles. The creditors have 14 days to object to the proposed property abandonment. Both cars still have significant value, but both are worth less than what is owed on them due primarily to no payments made for a year.

    If the property abandonment takes effect, what happens with the vehicles? They still belong to the creditors since they have not been paid off, but neither creditor has contacted me at all, despite the discharge happening three and a half months ago.

    For reference, here's the notice that was filed last week:

    "NOTICE OF PROPOSED ABANDONMENT

    In accordance with Fed. R. Bank. P. 6007, the Trustee hereby gives NOTICE of the proposed abandonment of the following described property:

    2013 Dodge Durango;
    2015 Cadillac Escalade.

    The Trustee believes such property is of no value to the Estate. Any objection by a party in interest shall be made in writing and filed with the Clerk of this Court at 1340 Russell Federal Building, 75 Ted Turner Drive, S.W., Atlanta, Georgia, 30303 and a copy served on the Trustee within fourteen (14) days from the date of the mailing of this Notice. If no written objection is filed within fifteen (15) days, the property shall be deemed abandoned without further hearing or Order of this Court."

    #2
    Welcome back BigJilm

    I would say that the combination of the courthouses having been relatively dark the last 90 days, combined with your conversion, is what has kept your creditors at bay. Most creditors, in a Chapter 7, will wait until the earlier of a motion for relief form the automatic stay (RFS) being granted (more on that later), a dismissal, or the case being closed, whichever comes first. The reason for an RFS despite there being no stay, is that these types of creditors (which repossess property) are very careful. They will usually file an motion to confirm that no stay is in affect, just to cover their butts!

    Compound all those issues with the (Chapter 7) Trustee actually administering property (liquidating), any smart creditor will stand way back and wait for closure. Those two creditors, despite the Trustee specifically abandoning that property, are smart to wait for the earlier of the closing of the case OR should file an motion to confirm not stay is in affect.

    I would say that the creditors will eventually take action. You should expect that they will take (repossess) the property (vehicles) at any given moment after they realize the Trustee abandoned the property and the case was discharged.

    Your mileage may vary. Pun intended.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

    Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you for the feedback, justbroke

      This thing has been so confusing for me, and unfortunately my bankruptcy attorney is not responsive at all about these things. When I filed Chapter 13 in March last year my intention was to keep both vehicles. I submitted a reaffirmation agreement for one of them shortly after the case converted. After the discharge and a couple months had passed, I actually called that creditor to find out when/how to resume my payments, and they told me that they had no record of a reaffirmation and that my account showed closed in bk. So yeah, I'm confused.

      And though my original intent was to keep the cars and pay for them as agreed, I'm not so sure I feel that way any more. I got free usage of both vehicles for over a year, and it may be best to just let them go and start fresh.

      You mentioned the creditors filing for RFS... if they do that, will I see it in Pacer when I log in to my case? So far I don't see anything like that. But based on what you wrote, if I do see that then it's probably a good indication they are coming for the vehicle.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by BigJilm View Post
        I actually called that creditor to find out when/how to resume my payments, and they told me that they had no record of a reaffirmation and that my account showed closed in bk. So yeah, I'm confused.
        Reads as though your attorney dropped the ball (the reaffirmation ball). I wonder if you could still do a 722 Redemption (which would allow you to pay only what it's worth), and get a 722 Redemption loan. Your lawyer would need to step up their act, though, because you would need to ask the court to intervene and you're literally days from the case closing.

        Originally posted by BigJilm View Post
        And though my original intent was to keep the cars and pay for them as agreed, I'm not so sure I feel that way any more. I got free usage of both vehicles for over a year, and it may be best to just let them go and start fresh.
        I may not have reaffirmed but pursued redemption... specially for the 2013.

        Originally posted by BigJilm View Post
        You mentioned the creditors filing for RFS... if they do that, will I see it in Pacer when I log in to my case? So far I don't see anything like that. But based on what you wrote, if I do see that then it's probably a good indication they are coming for the vehicle.
        Yes, it would be in PACER. Think about it this way, it doesn't harm the creditor in any way to just wait. The only time they seem more eager to go for an RFS (or at least a motion to confirm the stay doesn't exist), is when they think the property will suffer.

        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

        Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by justbroke View Post
          I wonder if you could still do a 722 Redemption (which would allow you to pay only what it's worth), and get a 722 Redemption loan.
          I'm looking into this option. I spoke with someone at 722redemption.com and got a quote for a redemption loan for the 2013 vehicle. The interest rate is high (22%) but even with that rate, doing the redemption would decrease the total amount I have to spend by several thousand dollars over the remaining life of the loan.

          Do you know of any other redemption lenders that are worth looking in to other than 722redemtion.com?

          Comment


            #6
            722 Redemption is a division of US Bank. It's the only one that I know that does these loans. If they gave you a quote, then you are approved. Yes the rate is high, but you can refinance out from that loan in 6 months from discharge. It's exactly the path I did and I was able to shave $11,000 in negative equity from my vehicle.

            I highly recommend these loans because they allow you to redeem the vehicles for thousands less. The key, to actually realize the savings, is to keep and maintain good credit for the next 6 months, and then refinance that 722 Redemption loan. I went through NFCU and the rate was, I think, 7.49% to refinance the ridiculous 18% rate from 722 Redemption. I did all the math and it was worth it for the savings of $11K. Even with the 18% rate, I think my total "cost" was less than $100 over the six months, but I saved $11,000 - $100!
            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

            Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

            Comment

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