family member giving money

[saucey]

hi everyone.quick question.can a family member give me money to catch up on my mortage before my 341 meeting?

[SinkingFast]

I sent you a PM, Saucey.

[psirasmom]

I am actually curious about this too. My mom took out a loan on her equity line so we could get a new roof done (nothing says falling apart like mold on your ceiling!) - I am making monthly payments directly to her (no promissory note or anything, just mom being nice). I don't want her to know anything about my bankruptcy though, for the fear of god lol.

[BassBoy]

Well, this is tough situation when it comes to owing family members or friends money for loans. If you borrowed money from a family or friend, but you don't want to file BK on them or want them to know, how can you explain the money expense? You have to account for where your money goes. It can be hard to "bury" it, especially if it's like $100 a month. Besides, you can always voluntarily re-pay any debt that was discharged.

[Interlaw]

hi everyone.quick question.can a family member give me money to catch up on my mortage before my 341 meeting?

*Give* you money, yes (although it is possible that the Trustee may ask about it). *Loan* you money, no, without approval of the Trustee or the Court.

Brett Weiss
[email protected]

https://www.brettweiss.com/bankruptcy

Maryland, DC and Federal bars
Member, National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys

--> Read our Bankruptcy FAQ at www.brettweiss.com/bankruptcy/FAQ/br_faq.htmwww.brettweiss.com/faq/br_faq.htm.

************************************************** ***************
The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only.
It isn't meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as
such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer
familiar with your state's laws who can review *all* of the
facts and the law applicable to your situation.
************************************************** ***************

[razorguns]

Well, this is tough situation when it comes to owing family members or friends money for loans. If you borrowed money from a family or friend, but you don't want to file BK on them or want them to know, how can you explain the money expense? You have to account for where your money goes. It can be hard to "bury" it, especially if it's like $100 a month. Besides, you can always voluntarily re-pay any debt that was discharged.

one word then. cash.

r

[Interlaw]

Cash or check doesn't matter. You are asked questions under perjury about loans. If you deny it, then (1) you're committing perjury; and (2) you're potentially opening yourself up for criminal prosecution for bankruptcy fraud, risk losing your bankruptcy, etc. Cash from your parents isn't traceless, and I can think of at least 3 easy ways the Trustee could find out that you lied about it if not disclosed.

Why risk it?

Brett Weiss
[email protected]

https://www.brettweiss.com/bankruptcy

Maryland, DC and Federal bars
Member, National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys

--> Read our Bankruptcy FAQ at www.brettweiss.com/bankruptcy/FAQ/br_faq.htmwww.brettweiss.com/faq/br_faq.htm.

************************************************** ***************
The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only.
It isn't meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as
such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer
familiar with your state's laws who can review *all* of the
facts and the law applicable to your situation.
************************************************** ***************

[razorguns]

Cash or check doesn't matter. You are asked questions under perjury about loans. If you deny it, then (1) you're committing perjury; and (2) you're potentially opening yourself up for criminal prosecution for bankruptcy fraud, risk losing your bankruptcy, etc. Cash from your parents isn't traceless, and I can think of at least 3 easy ways the Trustee could find out that you lied about it if not disclosed.

you sure over-estimate trustees. I've been to 341 and they ask almost little.

Fine, a gift not a loan. With no paperwork, court's could never prove it anyways - so perjury is out.

My brother gives me $1000 cash in my pocket b4 i go into a 341 meeting. Explain to me how that's traceable. It falls out while i'm talking?

r

[Interlaw]

you sure over-estimate trustees. I've been to 341 and they ask almost little.

Fine, a gift not a loan. With no paperwork, court's could never prove it anyways - so perjury is out.

My brother gives me $1000 cash in my pocket b4 i go into a 341 meeting. Explain to me how that's traceable. It falls out while i'm talking?

r

You've been before one trustee. There are thousands over the country. Some are sharp and some aren't. Some agressive and others aren't. And the US Trustee audits cases--and they certainly aren't soft. I know some Trustees who will threaten to sue you over $50 just to have you pay it to make him go away.

As far as how it's traceable, here are four possibilities:

Your brother dies, and the executor sees a $1,000 withdrawal, investigates what happened to the money, knows you are in BR, and calls the trustee to ask whether you got it.

You have a falling out with your brother, and he calls the trustee to cause you problems.

You and your wife/girlfriend have a falling out, and she calls the trustee to cause you problems.

The US Trustee audits your case, and asks you specific questions under oath on where you got the money to pay the mortgage, since the bank records they subpoenaed don't show sufficient funds to pay it.

What will you do when confronted with this, and you're under oath? Lie?

Brett Weiss
[email protected]

https://www.brettweiss.com/bankruptcy

Maryland, DC and Federal bars
Member, National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys

--> Read our Bankruptcy FAQ at www.brettweiss.com/bankruptcy/FAQ/br_faq.htmwww.brettweiss.com/faq/br_faq.htm.

************************************************** ***************
The Small Print: This response is for discussion purposes only.
It isn't meant to be legal advice and you shouldn't treat it as
such. If you want legal advice, speak with a local lawyer
familiar with your state's laws who can review *all* of the
facts and the law applicable to your situation.
************************************************** ***************

[FoolAndHisMoney]

I go with interlaw.


In bankruptcy no issue is too small. Every asset, every debt, every creditor, all income, no matter how small seems to matter. Some trustees don't care about the small stuff but you must assume they all care.

[razorguns]

Your brother dies, and the executor sees a $1,000 withdrawal, investigates what happened to the money, knows you are in BR, and calls the trustee to ask whether you got it.

You have a falling out with your brother, and he calls the trustee to cause you problems.

You and your wife/girlfriend have a falling out, and she calls the trustee to cause you problems.

The US Trustee audits your case, and asks you specific questions under oath on where you got the money to pay the mortgage, since the bank records they subpoenaed don't show sufficient funds to pay it.

What will you do when confronted with this, and you're under oath? Lie?

all incorrect.

The trustee has no legal right to investigate the brother. Privacy rights. We're protected freedoms from the Govt snooping on us w/o our knowledge.

I can't picture any trustee arguing over $50. That seems silly and any lawyer could fight that.

An angry brother calling a trustee is a very very slim reality. Now if u said ex-gf/wife, maybe.

I'm not talking a huge amount of cash like $50,000 to pay for your mortgage.

One guy i know got bk - yet has 2 houses in Canada, and lotsa money in can. bank accounts. Trustee's have no legal jurisdiction to subpoening international asset information. Legal loophole.

You only get grilled if something is suspicius in your paperwork. Which is why you need to get a lawyer to ensure everything looks hunky dorky. If not - THAT'S where they get you.

Scaring people about bk is counter-productive.

r

[LostOne0069]

all incorrect.

The trustee has no legal right to investigate the brother. Privacy rights. We're protected freedoms from the Govt snooping on us w/o our knowledge.

I can't picture any trustee arguing over $50. That seems silly and any lawyer could fight that.

An angry brother calling a trustee is a very very slim reality. Now if u said ex-gf/wife, maybe.

I'm not talking a huge amount of cash like $50,000 to pay for your mortgage.

One guy i know got bk - yet has 2 houses in Canada, and lotsa money in can. bank accounts. Trustee's have no legal jurisdiction to subpoening international asset information. Legal loophole.

You only get grilled if something is suspicius in your paperwork. Which is why you need to get a lawyer to ensure everything looks hunky dorky. If not - THAT'S where they get you.

Scaring people about bk is counter-productive.

r

You're missing his point.... again.

Yes, we've all heard stories of people who have gotten away with just about everything. He's not denying that. He's just saying that you CAN get cought if you get a trustee who is more conscientious than most. He didn't say anything about the trustee investigating your brother, he was talking about ways that the trustee could become aware of your little windfall... like the executor of your freshly dead brothers estate knowing you're in BK and knowing that you just got $50k from the estate and him calling the Trustee... and YES this is legal. In this instance that executor would not be acting as a representative of the court he would be acting as a private citizen who is reporting on a possible crime.

All the things that Interlaw has mentioned are things that CAN happen... not WILL happen, just can. you may get away with it... you even PROBABLY could get away with it. You just can't say that you WILL get away with it.

Hell, I could probably plan out a convenience store robbery and get away with it. That doesn't make it legal and it doesn't make it a sure thing that I'm not going to get cought.

Quite aside from the right or wrong aspect of this, really what you'd need to do is decide for yourself if it's worth it IF you do get cought and if you would feel OK lying about it.... because if you have that $1000 in your pocket and you say nothing... you're lying about it because the paperwork in the trustees hand says that you have $0 in your pocket.

What _I_ would do is talk to my attorney about ways that my Mom could LEGALLY help me with my mortgage. Who knows, maybe the Trustee would allow you to take out a loan with your mom to keep the house. Tell them that your mom has offered to catch up your mortgage payments but only if she can write the check directly to the mortgage company... and thus that money can't be given to anyone else. I don't know if this would work... but hey, it's definitely not illegal to ask.

[razorguns]

You're missing his point.... again.

Yes, we've all heard stories of people who have gotten away with just about everything. He's not denying that. He's just saying that you CAN get cought if you get a trustee who is more conscientious than most. He didn't say anything about the trustee investigating your brother, he was talking about ways that the trustee could become aware of your little windfall... like the executor of your freshly dead brothers estate knowing you're in BK and knowing that you just got $50k from the estate and him calling the Trustee... and YES this is legal. In this instance that executor would not be acting as a representative of the court he would be acting as a private citizen who is reporting on a possible crime.

All the things that Interlaw has mentioned are things that CAN happen... not WILL happen, just can. you may get away with it... you even PROBABLY could get away with it. You just can't say that you WILL get away with it.

Hell, I could probably plan out a convenience store robbery and get away with it. That doesn't make it legal and it doesn't make it a sure thing that I'm not going to get cought.

Quite aside from the right or wrong aspect of this, really what you'd need to do is decide for yourself if it's worth it IF you do get cought and if you would feel OK lying about it.... because if you have that $1000 in your pocket and you say nothing... you're lying about it because the paperwork in the trustees hand says that you have $0 in your pocket.

What _I_ would do is talk to my attorney about ways that my Mom could LEGALLY help me with my mortgage. Who knows, maybe the Trustee would allow you to take out a loan with your mom to keep the house. Tell them that your mom has offered to catch up your mortgage payments but only if she can write the check directly to the mortgage company... and thus that money can't be given to anyone else. I don't know if this would work... but hey, it's definitely not illegal to ask.

You're coming up with a lot of 'what ifs'. Yeah, i guess u could also win the lottery tomorrow too.

Using your logic, u could go to the casino the day b4 341, win $50, and boom - the trustee could kick you out of bk.

Trustee, like the federal govt, can only investigate you so much w/o infringing on civil liberties. Trustees know this well. They have rules you know.

Your family member can just pay some of your bills instead of giving you $1000 or give it to you after the discharge. All this is semantics.

r

[FoolAndHisMoney]

Razor, I don't think some trustees will care about $50 either. The point is if you lie about something so small then the trustee will investigate you thoroughly and this will complicate your case. Many of us want this over sooner rather then later. Even if they find nothing no one wants to be investigated and have their case open for 6 months or more over a $50 lie.

[BassBoy]

Hmmm....I guess we can make assumptions about what could or could not happen. Point is, no one really knows. But I can agree with those of you that say that lying/hiding something so small can create one LARGE headache.