Clarification of Ch 13 Confirmation & Objections

[DebtInOregon]

Hello Everyone!

We filed for Ch 13 bankruptcy March 31, 2006. The 341 meeting went smoothly and our plan was confirmed on June 2, 2006. The last day to file objections was August 15, 2006. I have been following our case on Pacer and I do not see that any objections have been filed (all debt in plan is unsecured and we are paying back at 70%). Could there be objections that have not been entered yet? Does the fact that the plan has been confirmed tell me that the case is set to run it's course as planned?

I also have been trying to follow my case through the website the Trustee recommended (13datacenter.com), but when I try to register, it tells me that it has found my case, but the Trustee has not entered any information and to try back later. Shouldn't there be information by now?

Finally, why wouldn't a large retailer like Sears file a claim against approx $5,000? I know they received notice because I have not received any statements from them since the filing and they are listed on my creditor's matrix.

Thank you in advance for your help

[drednm]

so far as I know they cannot file a claim after a specific date.... some just don't bother and probably get a tax relief for a bad debt... which may be easier for them than waiting 3-5 years for 70%....

[Minnymouth]

It has only been 2 weeks since the objection date..... More than likely the Trustee is behind on his paperwork, may have been on vacation, etc.... sooooo you may not see anything posted for at least 30 days.

You said everything was unsecured in you debts at a 70% payback. Was Sears also unsecured...... that unusual because they are usually a secured creditor...

I'm not sure about the Chapter 13's (maybe someone else can throw some input into this for you) BUT I don't think that secured and unsecured creditors have to file a claim because all of them will be paid a % of what you owe them..... BUT I do know in a Chapter 7 creditors have to file a claim if the Trustee finds assets.

This may not help much, but maybe others can help more.

[Jman30]

It has only been 2 weeks since the objection date..... More than likely the Trustee is behind on his paperwork, may have been on vacation, etc.... sooooo you may not see anything posted for at least 30 days.

You said everything was unsecured in you debts at a 70% payback. Was Sears also unsecured...... that unusual because they are usually a secured creditor...

I'm not sure about the Chapter 13's (maybe someone else can throw some input into this for you) BUT I don't think that secured and unsecured creditors have to file a claim because all of them will be paid a % of what you owe them..... BUT I do know in a Chapter 7 creditors have to file a claim if the Trustee finds assets.

This may not help much, but maybe others can help more.

You are right Minny, they don't have to file a claim. They will get whatever % you are supposed to be paying back. Basically, they only file a claim if they find out they were NOT included in your Chapter 13 filing or if they disagree with the amount that you say you owe them.

Additionally, I don't mean to sound like a downer, but they CAN file a claim after the deadline. It does not mean the Judge will allow it or even look at it, he may just dismiss it out of hand because it was filed late. But if it is for a huge amount, they make look at it. For example, Ford Credit tried to file a claim AFTER my deadline, saying the amount we claimed to owe them was much less than thought it should be. The judge looked at and responded that Ford Credit had missed their opportunity to complain and they knew about this months before. But I have heard of other posters who have had late claims allowed.

[SinkingFast]

You said everything was unsecured in you debts at a 70% payback. Was Sears also unsecured...... that unusual because they are usually a secured creditor...


This may not help much, but maybe others can help more.

Maybe the OP had a Sears MasterCard. That's an unsecured CC that can be used to purchase things elsewhere besided Sears. Our Sears MC was backed by Citi.

I imagine if you purchase something like a fridge or TV or such from Sears on that type Sears card, Sears could make a case for those items being Secured.

[DebtInOregon]

Thank you for your responses.

I understand now that filing a claim and filing an objection are two different things in Ch 13. So it does not matter who filed a claim, but when my plan payment was set at 70% payback everyone on my creditor's matrix will get their %? I am happy with that!

Thanks again,
M'Liss

[Interlaw]

You are right Minny, they don't have to file a claim. They will get whatever % you are supposed to be paying back. Basically, they only file a claim if they find out they were NOT included in your Chapter 13 filing or if they disagree with the amount that you say you owe them.

Additionally, I don't mean to sound like a downer, but they CAN file a claim after the deadline. It does not mean the Judge will allow it or even look at it, he may just dismiss it out of hand because it was filed late. But if it is for a huge amount, they make look at it. For example, Ford Credit tried to file a claim AFTER my deadline, saying the amount we claimed to owe them was much less than thought it should be. The judge looked at and responded that Ford Credit had missed their opportunity to complain and they knew about this months before. But I have heard of other posters who have had late claims allowed.

That is incorrect. For a creditor to receive payment in a Chapter 13, it *must* file a Proof of Claim. No Proof of Claim, no payment.

If the creditor is a general unsecured creditor, such as Capital One, this is good. Once the Plan is completed and the case discharged, the debt is discharged. If a priority or secured creditor (or a special creditor, such as a student loan), the non-payment during the bankruptcy can actually hurt you. This is so because the lien (if it is secured) or debt is *not* discharged, and you or your property remains liable for the debt.

Brett Weiss

Maryland, DC and Federal bars
Member, National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Attorneys

[Minnymouth]

Interlaw,

I know that in a Chapter 7 case if there are assets, then all creditors MUST file a claim to get a percentage of the payout......

I was not sure about the Chapter 13 because I did know that all creditors would be paid a percentage of what they were owed. I was not aware that they all had to file a claim also to receive it..... That's only logical though... makes sense to me....

I did know that in Chapter 13, all priority and secured creditors are paid first, then if the unsecured have access to funds they will be paid also....

Also that all student loans are non-dischargable whether in 7 or 13.

I am not real familar with the new Chapter 13 process..... thats one reason I asked for input from other people on the subject.

Thank you for the input.....

[aa06a47]

You are right Minny, they don't have to file a claim. They will get whatever % you are supposed to be paying back. Basically, they only file a claim if they find out they were NOT included in your Chapter 13 filing or if they disagree with the amount that you say you owe them.

Additionally, I don't mean to sound like a downer, but they CAN file a claim after the deadline. It does not mean the Judge will allow it or even look at it, he may just dismiss it out of hand because it was filed late. But if it is for a huge amount, they make look at it. For example, Ford Credit tried to file a claim AFTER my deadline, saying the amount we claimed to owe them was much less than thought it should be. The judge looked at and responded that Ford Credit had missed their opportunity to complain and they knew about this months before. But I have heard of other posters who have had late claims allowed.

Not true, for a creditor to be paid anything, they must file a claim.

[Minnymouth]

Thanks for the added info....... as I said, I'm not real familar with the Chapter 13 laws, that's why I make very little comments about it...... I leave it to those that have been throught it and know the problems and actions of it....


It amazes me that in a Chapter 13 that many creditors will not even file a claim against it..... they just write it off.....

If I was a creditor and a client had to enter Chapter 13, I'd be standing there with my paperwork getting something out of that Chapter 13 fund.... Anything would be better than nothing.

Question, does the creditor get to accept what the payoff % is and then writes the rest off? Or if he accepts the payoff - is he refused the right to write the rest of it off by accepting partial payment as payment in full?

Anybody know how that works???

And on the credit report - is it going to state Included in Chapter 13 - paid in full, or paid as agreed, or charged off???

Things to ponder!!!!!

[aa06a47]

Question, does the creditor get to accept what the payoff % is and then writes the rest off? Or if he accepts the payoff - is he refused the right to write the rest of it off by accepting partial payment as payment in full?

Anybody know how that works???

And on the credit report - is it going to state Included in Chapter 13 - paid in full, or paid as agreed, or charged off???

Things to ponder!!!!!

The creditor has the right to object to the confirmation of the plan. With that said, he has to have solid legal reasons for objections to the plan such as the house is worth more than the creditor states, plan gives less than a chapter 7 liquidation,...ect. Once the dates pass for objections, and the plan is confirmed, they must accept what they get and write the rest off.

On my credit report it states Debt Discharged in Chapter 13 BK and in the payment slot, it just says "PP" or payment plan.

On a side note, most CC companies will sell the accounts to collection agencies at the start of the chapter 13. The collection agencies file the proof of claim and act as agent for the cc companies. In essence, the CC companies don't want to wait 60 months to get the small amount. They take pennies on the dollar and write the rest off. I believe Discover was the only one that didn't in my particular case.

In my case, Citi had to give back money to the trustee (a little over 900 bucks) that I paid them in the 90 day period. Those idiots never filed a proof of claim, nor did they sell the debt. So, Citi is SOL, they not only got nothing, but had to pay back over 900 bucks to the trustee. I'm sure the other creditors will thank them!

[Minnymouth]

Thanks for the input...... I knew about part of it and how it worked but some of it was kind of out of the loop for me...... since all my case was a Chapter 7 and the new laws all changed.....

I'm still trying to get more knowlegable and uptodate on the new laws....

Appreciate the response and I'm sure all the others do too....

[aa06a47]

Thanks for the input...... I knew about part of it and how it worked but some of it was kind of out of the loop for me...... since all my case was a Chapter 7 and the new laws all changed.....

I'm still trying to get more knowlegable and uptodate on the new laws....

Appreciate the response and I'm sure all the others do too....

Don't worry Minnymouth, I believe the new law is still being interpreted and that some judges and attorneys are waiting for rulings to clarify the new law. Heck, I even had someone tell me there attorney said they couldn't continue to pay there 401k loans in a chapter 13.....duh.

[Jman30]

Sorry I caused confusion.....shows you how much I know after 2 years in a Chapter 13! LOL

[DebtInOregon]

aa06a47,

Thank you for posting. I have actually been following your case here on the boards because I feel our filing timelines are very simular. Which queary do you run on Pacer to see funds being dispersed? Did they update your deadlines? All mine says is that the 341 hearing is done and the confirmation hearing was terminated since they went ahead and confirmed the plan prior to that date. Nothing else has been updated even though all the deadlines have come and gone.

I also wanted to know how soon were you able to see info on the 13datacenter.com website? This entire time it has told me that it has found my case, but it says that the Trustee has not entered any information, so there is nothing for me to see.

Thank you!
M'Liss