Before you file here is my comical story

[aa06a47]

ks for all the kind words. I appreciate and it helps however I realize that I am not special and you as well as others have similiar if not worse stories. I am not looking for pitty, i know you all are not giving me any, but just to let people know what CAN happen in bkruptcy.

The car off the lift was a fluke, yep rested on the frame on the lift. Barely bent the frame but still a frame has be be straightened and therefore a total loss.........


Understand that for 6 months I debated to not file a bkruptcy. The reason is that I felt that like it or not I am the one that borrowed money from unsecured creditors and I owe it. I tried the CCCS route for a year because I wanted to honor the loans to them. CCCS is another story for another day. My atty, stated that I would go into a 0% status as he "HATES" creditors anyway. I just gave up and followed his mis advise.

I agree, you make more money (income) you should pay more. They way in penalizes you is what is the farse as they will not allow you to even save a dollar for emergencies.... the emergencies that most people charge on their credit cards


Chapter four:

Things calm down for a while. Bank One leaves me alone, Making my payments to plan on time, mortgage payments on time, we are healthy, have two beautiful kids etc... In March of 06 i get a letter from the Bankruptcy court notifying me of a motion to lift stay from my mortgage company. They include the mortgage company discovery infromation as basis. Essentially it states that I have not been paying my late payments along with my monthly out of plan payments. They list 25 months missed late payments in the amount of 135.00 a peice plus interst. They are demanding 3335 (135 * 25) plus interst in the amount of 324. plus attorney fees of 3870. Grand Total of $7569. I am in shock at this point as I have been paying my increased montly payment (see first chapters) on time by check (see first chapters) as I should. Contact their attorneys myself as I now don't have an attorney ( see first chapters). They refuse to talk to me for a couple of weeks as they want to deal only with my attorney. Finally they listen to me after I send a letter to them telling them I am on my own. Essentially they tell me that since when I filed bkruptcy i was in arrears for 5000.00 my account would not be current until I finished the plan and therfore every payment made post petition was subject to a late fee as technically it was paying for months in past tense. they tell me if I can pay the amount over 6 months they will hold their request to lift stay. I had to sign a document with them agreeeing to this as well as they put a blurb in their that stated if I was even on day late on these payments or even my plan payment to the trustee they would be able to lift stay without the normal 30 day notice. I sell a few things such as my class ring, college conference champ ring from a well known university, all my and my dads (he passed them down to me) baseball cards to get the funds. Pay the amount in person in full (montly payments arent going to work)their attorneys office in Houston (I drove six hours to them as I no longer lived in the area as I stated in chapter one that I owned a house down there at on point). I would have just mailed it but it took two weeks for them to respond to me and another two for my to have a fire sale to rase the cash. At their office the inform me that they forgot to add in all the drive by inspection fees (see above chapters) which totaled over $2300.00. They claim they need to ammend the agreement which I had signed and I needed the difference that day as it was the deadline for the agreement to be paid. Dad wires me the money and at 4:45 before the deadline they get their cashiers check. I get to keep the house........ Might be cheaper to just build a new one I am thinking.

It is July now.......... two more years of this? wow I just don't know


(as to my attorney, his aggrement states that after confirmation he is done without any additional fees being charged).... how can I pay fees as all my disposable income goes to the trustee? I am still on my own, unable to come up with a retainer for another attorney to sue Bank One (see other chapters) and help at all. THIS BANKRUPTCY HAS HELPED ME NONE AT ALL!

you guys are great to know as your stories and answeres on this forum is invaluable.

I feel for you man, and I actually think what they have done and continue to do to you is illegal. These drive by's...that's some major league bull shit.

In my opinion, and I think the BK judge would agree, is that they have violated the automatic stay. The point of a chapter 13 is to make up the arrears. The late fee's / arrears and allowed interest rates (determined by the courts) were a part of your plan, a plan that the creditors must accept when the plan was confirmed. They have passed that time to object to the plan. These "additional" late fees are not allowed unless the trustee allows them. These "drive-by's" are not allowed expense, unless the trustee allows them. Also, you cannot "sign" away your bankruptcy rights with the automatic stay. I would love to see them try and force that issue in the BK court.

You have, in my opinion, a very good case against the mortgage company. If I were you, I would scrimp whatever money it might cost and file an adversarial against them for violation of the automatic stay. I would ask for court cost, all late fee's you just paid, and some extra for pain and suffering. I would also rescend the agreement you made with them concerning your rights on the automatic stay.

The chapter 13 automatic stay is a very powerful tool. Being under chapter 13 is very powerful protection against creditors.

Since your contract with your attorney ended with plan confirmation, you still might be able to retain him for follow up work.

[aa06a47]

Dang, what your mortgage company did really pisses me off. As long as you were current on all your payments..you were weren't you??? they cannot do that....they just simply cannot do that. You really have a very good case.....a very very very good case.

You should be able to get your entire 10K back if you pursue it and all the attorney fee's. You might discuss this with a bankruptcy attorney...they might even take it based on the mortgage company will end up paying the attorney fee's.

[curba]

Minny, haven't heard your story yet and I have not been able to find it on the board yet. Love to hear it though. As to teaming up.... I am all ears. At one point early on I decided to just wash my hands of it as the last thing I wanted to due is to continue on with any more court issues such as filing a suit. Each time something else happens and I go through the whole thought process over again. As to the legal system.......I am not obvioulsy an attorney however before we started a business (before I filed bkruptcy) I was a high end sales rep for WEST Publishing (10 years in the industry). For those that are not familiar they are THE legal publisher for the us legal market. Essentially I sold and trained attorneys on legal research materials (actually taught them how to research the law on westlaw.com) so I know thousands of attorneys and judges. Hell even the bankruptcy court was one of my core accounts and the judge that rules on my case is one of my former clients...... But that experience has given me a lot of legal understanding not just in the law but in the fact that some might not have and that is most attorney are creatures of habbit in that they rarely take cases that are outside the box (mine is) and obviolsy are in business to make a profit and aren't interested in taking on something so intensely filled with finite details as it will tiresome to compile the information necessary to Quickly get paid on this suit.

I even thought about filing this Pro Se realize that since I don't have esq. after my name my arguments will not carry a very heavy foot print.

One asked about me being behind in my post petition payments to my mortgage company.... I was alway current except when they mailed two months payments back to me as I discussed. To make it clear: I was 5000.00 in arrears when I filed. This was form months of December of 03, Jan and Feb of 04. I filed in 04 and made post petition payments for march to current date. Their argument in the late fee fiasco was that since my payment post petition in march of 04 was recieved and they still had amounts due for the three months of dec. jan. feb. (which we included in my plan) that technically I was still in arrears hence the monthly late payment fees every month. My trustee stated that this happens occasionally as it is a gray area in the law. No statute nor caselaw sets precidence for argument.......YET

[aa06a47]

When you have a few minutes, read this:

http://www.tneb.uscourts.gov/opinions/rs/02-05-2004;_Bush_v_Countrywide_Home_Loans_(In_re_Bush)_03-3154.pdf#

No grey area in this ruling....you need to get your money back!!!!

[Anj]

All I can say is I thought my mortgage company was rediculous... a lot sounds familiar about the refused payments and money order demands... each month is a battle with them - even though I am "PROTECCTED" under the 13 - I still live in fear of losing my house every month...

Hang in there buddy - I am gonna refinance and get the HELL out of this 13 as soon as we can (we are 100%).

A

[aa06a47]

Anj, that protection keeps mortgage companies from doing illegal stuff and makes them liable for the expenses associated with there attempts to milk the turnip. Unfortunatly, for every 1 that files a complaint and wins, 10 probably just pay because of the fear factor.

[lrprn]

Anj, that protection keeps mortgage companies from doing illegal stuff and makes them liable for the expenses associated with there attempts to milk the turnip. Unfortunatly, for every 1 that files a complaint and wins, 10 probably just pay because of the fear factor.

If only 1 in every 10 debtors objects and wins in situations like this, that means the mortgage company is able to manufacture dollars where none existed before - that's a 100% return for their efforts 9 times out of 10 when they get away with it. Even if they only get a few thousand for each case, that adds up to millions of dollars when they do it to hundreds of filers - it's obvious why they do it. Bastards.

[aa06a47]

lrprn, that 1 in 10 number is a guess, but I bet it isn't far from the truth. Most people wouldn't want to take the chance of losing there home. I have been reading horror stories on this topic on the internet. It all seems to stem from mortgage companies not applying payments for people in BK.

I am having similiar problems with when they are applying them. I now have a 3rd party involved as I started using the bill pay service from my bank to send them. Now, both are "electronic" to the mortgage companies. It is ironic, CitiMortgage, who has the second mortgage, is taking like 5 days to post to my account (direct deposit into there account), and the first mortgage is taking up to 12 days to post, and it is also direct deposit into the account. At least I now have proof when the payments went to them through the bill pay service if they try and start this late payment bull crap.

In all reality, I don't have that much equity in my home. I guess if they try something like that with me, 1) I don't have the extra money to pay them and no source to get that money, so 2) if they would "win" they can take the home and eat the loss.

[Anj]

You know - in addition to getting the living crap scared out of me when we received the lift of automatic stay - I was charged an additional 1000.00 in their filing fees - which I paid...

I hate Wachovia Mortgage

I have 2 mortgages - my home is worth $205k - Wachovia hold my mortgage for 129k and another loan holds me for 33k - soooooo - they stand to make a little change on me if they foreclose and not necissarily take a loss. So I could see why they are like a shark smelling blood...

Ang

[Minnymouth]

Yes,
Many of these companies post payments "late"...... cc companies do it all the time and so do the mortgage companies....... their way of being able to attach fees...........

Utilities companies are now doing the same thing..... you do a electronic transfer or use a debt card and they don't post it till they see fit...... if its worthwhile they will hold it back and post after fees and penalties have been applied first......

Money making in progress....................

I paid a utitlity bill by electronic transfer....... my account showed funds transfered same day................ the utility company showed balance still due 2 WEEKS LATER......had not been applied or posted..... (guess it was laying on someone's desk for 2 weeks, huh?)

I screamed bloody murder in their ears............ letting them know I knew the funds had been transfered the same day..... why weren't they posted??? They tried to say computer error............ me I said NO - employee error!!!

Since I also work for a utility company they didn't argue a whole lot with me...... bad mistake if they did.....

I've discovered that a lot of the companies will hold back payments, deposits, etc now just to tack on a fee or penalties...... even if you are paying them 30 days in advance......

Notice the day you write your check, and the day they post it too your accounts........ BIG DIFFERENCE..... sometimes 20 30 days later.....
Even "snail mail" is not that slow.............. and electronic transfer sure isn't....

[Minnymouth]

We had a situation here in our town where the mailmen were throwing mail away so they wouldn't have to deliver it..............

We had many, many complaints from people that got over-due bills who were screaming they had sent the bill in plenty of time...... yet we had never received it....

One of the mail carriers had a whole trunk full of mail when they caught him.....

[Minnymouth]

curba,

If you want answers and actions, the best place to start is with the man at the TOP - THE ATTORNEY GENERAL IN WASHINGTON...... remember everybody has a boss............... including the entire bankruptcy system.....

Also, you can contact your Congressman, Senators, Governor, local Attorney General in the process......

Attorney General in Washington hires all US Trustees............... they answer too him..... Regular Trustees are appointed by the Court to represent the creditors...... (but yet they are overseen by the US Trustee)......

If you have too - MAKE HEADS ROLL...... FROM THE TOP TO THE BOTTOM OF THE POLE..............

I SURE INTEND TOO..............

[curba]

finally decided, the law suits are about to fly. Hired an attroney Friday. Large retainer. Using a firm with a lot of debtor creditor law experience that also has a bkruptcy attorney on staff (old trustee). Was in their office for 7 hours friday going over my case. There was me, 6 attorneys and four paralegal going over everything. I guess they were pretty intersted in my story? Even had an investigator in another office on speakerphone.

Keep you posted if interested

[aa06a47]

It was a very good decision...hope you bankrupt that mortgage company

[lrprn]

finally decided, the law suits are about to fly. Hired an attroney Friday. Large retainer. Using a firm with a lot of debtor creditor law experience that also has a bkruptcy attorney on staff (old trustee). Was in their office for 7 hours friday going over my case. There was me, 6 attorneys and four paralegal going over everything. I guess they were pretty intersted in my story? Even had an investigator in another office on speakerphone.

Keep you posted if interested

If we are interested?? If we didn't find what happens to you in the coming months would be like walking out in the middle of a really good 'whodunit' mystery and not finding out who really did it!

Please do keep us posted on what happens with your case, curba, and best of luck to you! Hopefully your mortgage and car lenders will rue the day they decided to make some easy money off your situation - won't be so easy now.