401 k

[Jenny]

You don't have a monopoly on life experiences, SF. Lots of people experience very similar things as you, and some even experience things you haven't.

I know it is not possible for you to have turned $25,000 into $100,000 in 5 years. You're lying, but I really don't know why. Maybe you just don't know how your finances work. You *are* filing bankruptcy after all.

[bkbiker]

Another weekend filled with drama,

On the stock market,

There is always opportunity to make huge gains especial back in the hay day of the 1990’s

Getting out at the right moment is the hardest thing one will ever do, most new investors become paralyzed with a down turn, and watch helplessly as their fortune goes down the tubes.

I followed this one mutual fund called RED OAK; started at $10 per share watched it go to $78 in the year 2000, almost bought it than, than watch it fall all the way down to $3 per share in 2002. I think it is de-listed now. There are thousands of similar stories in the market.

Remember first lady Hilary Clinton turned $1,000. 00 into $100,000.00

Well, I was one of those fools who thought I could beat the market and lost all my available money; ironically and thankfully I never touch my retirement funds invested in the boring Vanguard mutual funds; they sure are looking pretty now, un-touchable in bankruptcy to boot.

Well, having no money now, I am off to work to earn a few extra dollars

Take care,
bkbiker

[bobby125]

SF

Why are you dragging emotions into this?

How could 5 years of 401k contributions make or break a retirement in 7 years?

How could it?

Please tell me

[aa06a47]

You don't have a monopoly on life experiences, SF. Lots of people experience very similar things as you, and some even experience things you haven't.

I know it is not possible for you to have turned $25,000 into $100,000 in 5 years. You're lying, but I really don't know why. Maybe you just don't know how your finances work. You *are* filing bankruptcy after all.

I turned 10K into 390K in 2 years (1998-2000) in the stock market day trading. I lost mine due to pure greed and improper tax planning with the capitol gains. I'm only posting that because you seem to not understand how much you can gain in short periods of time in a bull market. I've won and lost in the market.

Jenny, I find it very easy to see how SF turned 25K into 100K in the late 90's. If they were tech sector and or in there own company stock...very very easy to have doubled and even quaddroupled during that time. As a note, Fidelity handles 401k's for alot of companies....just because your in a Fidelity 401K through your employeer doesn't mean you only own Fidelity mutual funds.

My boss at work at not done very good planning for his retirement. He was setting on 160K in his 401K at work with 5 months to go before retirment. (this was the late 90's). He asked me what to do. I told him to switch to Fidelity Magellian fund. By the time he cashed out of it it was worth 250K (6 months at most it appreciated 90K). I also let him ride my day trading thing (we both worked nights). He started with 2K and in his 5 months of day trading with me, he was up to 10K.

I'm glad he stopped then. He knew when to stop, I didn't, that is why I'm here. LOL!!!

[aa06a47]

SF

Why are you dragging emotions into this?

How could 5 years of 401k contributions make or break a retirement in 7 years?

How could it?

Please tell me

Well, as I get closer to thinking of retirement (I'm 16 years away), I think I will find that these next 5 years of reduced contributions will make a hugh difference on my lifestyle in retirement. Only time will tell. There are no guarantee's in life or in investing.

However, with that said, after this 5 year period is over, I will be debt free except for my mortgage. I feel the debt I'm discharging would have been far more detrimental to my retirement than missing the 5 years contribution into the 401k.

Yes, I think the money she would/could invest in the next 5 years would help in retirment. It could be a good deal of money. However, if she was strapped with only being able to make min payments on unsecured debt, she is better off doing this.

I still believe that one should be allowed to contribute to a savings plan / 401k while in a chapter 13 bk. Chapter 7's get there fresh start almost immediatly and have no payback to creditors. If the Chapter 13 person is paying something back, allow them something.

[bkbiker]

Hi aao6a47,

Sorry to hear about your day trading loses, the market sure can be brutal, I am not sure what was worst, taking the beating of my life back in 2000 -2001in the stock market or this damn chapter 13 thing.

Well like you said, at least we will have a fresh start when it is over

I have to agree with you on not letting us chapter 13 filer contribute to retirement accounts, we need it as much as the next person, and all the chapter 7 filers are free to contribute the day after they file.

Yes Jenny, turning 25 grand into 100 grand only took a few months back in 1999

Take care,
bkbiker

[SinkingFast]

You don't have a monopoly on life experiences, SF. Lots of people experience very similar things as you, and some even experience things you haven't.

I know it is not possible for you to have turned $25,000 into $100,000 in 5 years. You're lying, but I really don't know why. Maybe you just don't know how your finances work. You *are* filing bankruptcy after all.

Well, that's some strong verbage from someone who never tells anything about themselves. Calling another person a liar. You don't know me. You don't know where I came from. How I've lived my life.

Why are you here, Jenny??

You don't seem to have any financial difficulties at all and have all the answers to everyone else's problems.

Just because we're here now doesn't mean we didn't always not have money.

Guess you've never fell on hard times??!!

I know!! Doc10House didn't really make $200K/yr and live in a $350K house before he lost his professional license either. He lied and made it all up. We're all liars here. Every one of us. Except Jenny of course. Jenny always tells the truth!

Isn't that right in the Life According to Jenny book??!!

[SinkingFast]

Hi aao6a47,

Sorry to hear about your day trading loses, the market sure can be brutal, I am not sure what was worst, taking the beating of my life back in 2000 -2001in the stock market or this damn chapter 13 thing.

Well like you said, at least we will have a fresh start when it is over

I have to agree with you on not letting us chapter 13 filer contribute to retirement accounts, we need it as much as the next person, and all the chapter 7 filers are free to contribute the day after they file.

Yes Jenny, turning 25 grand into 100 grand only took a few months back in 1999

Take care,
bkbiker

Good to see some people remember stock market history here, BKBiker.

We got pinged really bad in 1987. We lost our butts. I can't remember how much we put in, but we walked away with $700 I think. Glad to have that much left.

We were just down right lucky in the '90's. Timing was good. Fidelity had the right mix. Everything fell into place and we made a few bucks.

[SinkingFast]

SF

Why are you dragging emotions into this?

How could 5 years of 401k contributions make or break a retirement in 7 years?

How could it?

Please tell me

Because I deal with it every day. A person who's elderly and in the same spot. Coulda had more but doesn't. And watching what little savings she does have go down every day.

If she had an extra $100K, her life would be much different. She'd still be independent instead of having to swallow her dignity and live with her adult daughter and family.

When you live thru/with that, then we can chat. When you see the sadness in your parent's eyes because they have to live with you or they can't buy food and their meds. When they can't put the roof over their own heads anymore without you. Until that happens to you and your family, you'll never understand.

[bobby125]

AA

I lost about half my debt in daytrading last year. That is what put me here, I was up $40,000 and then, well you know the rest.......

I think daytrading is just like gambling, very little difference

[bobby125]

OKAY, WHAT WERE WE TALKING ABOUT HERE?

Oh yeah, the poster....

What did he say?

His mom is retiring in 7 years, and now due to the fact that she cannot contribute to her 401k over the next 5years, that this will DRAMATICALLY AFFECT HER RETIREMENT AND SHE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RETIRE.

Lets assume she is 58 and is planning on retiring at the age of 65 and she makes $72,000 per year.


OPTION ONE: SHE SAYS THAT NO 401K FOR 5 YEARS WILL DRAMATICALLY AFFECT HER RETIREMENT AND SHE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RETIRE AND SAYS NO TO CHAPTER 13 BK.

SHE PUTS IN 3% AND THE COMPANY MATCHES 3%

ON A 10% RETURN SHE WOULD HAVE $27,877 IN 5 YEARS

ON A 50% RETURN SHE WOULD HAVE $91,415 IN 5 YEARS

DURING THIS 5 YEARS, SHE PAYS OFF HER DEBT

OPTION TWO: SHE SAYS THE CHAPTER 13 IS WORTH IT AND FORGET THE 401K. SHE MAKES PAYMENTS OF $600 TO HER CHAPTER 13 PLAN (THIS IS A GUESS? ESTIMATE...)

WE ALREADY KNOW WHAT SHE WOULD HAVE HAD AT THE END OF FIVE YEARS GIVEN EITHER A 10% OR 50% RETURN, SO NOW THE QUESTION IS...HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE TO MAKE THAT UP?

WELL, IF SHE WAS PAYING $600 A MONTH, SHE CAN NOW TAKE ALL THAT MONEY AND PUT IT TOWARDS THE 401K, SO WE WILL SAY THAT $600 IS WORTH $900 (NO TAXES ON 401) SO LETS SAY SHE CAN DO 15% AND THE COMPANY MATCHES 6%.....

NOW REMEMBER, AT THIS POINT SHE IS STILL 2 YEARS AWAY FROM RETIREMENT....

AT A 10% RETURN FOR THOSE TWO YEARS OF 15% CONTRIBUTIONS, SHE WOULD HAVE MADE $33,323 OR A LITTLE MORE THAN WHAT SHE LOST BY NOT BEING ABLE TO CONTRIBUTE 3% DURING THOSE 5 YEARS ($27,877)

AT A 50% RETURN, SHE WOULD HAVE TO WORK AN EXTRA YEAR. (TWO YEARS PLUS AN EXTRA YEAR, FOR A TOTAL OF 3 YEARS OR AGE 66)

THAT 15% CONTRIBUTIONS WOULD BE WORTH $101,227 OR A LITTLE MORE THAN THOSE 5 YEARS BEING LOST AT 3% ($91,415)


NOW....TO ADDRESS SOME FORTHCOMING QUESTIONS......

*YES I KNOW THAT THE MONEY PUT IN THE 401K DURING THE 5 YEAR NON ALLOWED PERIOD WOULD NOT BE GIVEN THE CHANCE TO GROW AFTER (I.E. BOBBY, IF SHE WOULD HAVE PUT IN THE 3% DURING THE 5 YEARS, THAT WOULD GROW LATER ON). I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT??? THE SAME ARGUEMENT CAN BE MADE FOR MONEY SHE ALREADY HAS....WHICH BRINGS ME TO MY ORIGINAL POST.......

IT WILL NOT DRAMATICALLY AFFECT THE RETIREMENT...............

WE JUST SAID THAT BEING ALLOWED TO PUT IN 3% WITH A 3% MATCH WOULD NET CLOSE TO $30,000 AT A 10% RETURN, HOW CAN THAT BE DRAMATIC?

AND YES, IS IT POSSIBLE TO GROW THE MONEY 50% AND HAVE A $100,000????????

YES. IT IS. I DO NOT DISPUTE THAT.

BUT........SHE WOULD BE ABLE TO GROW ANY MONEY SHE ALREADY HAS AND REAP THE BENEFITS OF THAT

IF SHE HAS $100,000 ALREADY, WELL SHE CAN GROW THAT TO $200,000 OR $500,000

I DO NOT SEE HOW THE NEXT 5 YEARS PLAYS INTO THAT ARGUEMENT.

NOW, I WONT COMMENT ON IF SOMEONE IS THAT CLOSE TO RETIREMENT THAN THEY SHOULD NOT BE IN SUCH HIGH RISK INVESTMENTS.




FINALLY, IF YOU WANT TO SAY, HEY SHE COULD PUT 6% A YEAR INTO THE 401K AND GROW IT 50% TO A $100,000 OR EVEN 500% TO $500,000 THEN I WILL SAY YES, THAT WOULD DRAMTICALLY AFFECT IT. BUT THAT IS LIKE SAYING SHE COULD GO TO VEGAS AND WIN A MILLION


BOTTOM LINE, IF SHE HAS A $600 PLAN AND DOESNT CONTRIBUTE TO THE 401K, ALL SHE MUST DO IS PAY FOR 5 YEARS, THAN KICK IN 15% THE NEXT 2 YEARS AND SHE WILL HAVE MADE UP ANYTHING SHE MISSED OUT ON, ASSUMING A 10% RETURN

IF THE MARKET ROCKETS DURING THE 5 YEARS SHE MISSED? WELL, IT WILL NOT KILL HER, BECAUSE THE BULK OF HER MONEY IS (OR SHOULD BE) IN THE ACCOUNT ALREADY. I.E. $100-$300K

IF NOT, THEN I DO NOT THINK IT IS THE NEXT 5 YEARS OF CONTRIBUTIONS THAT WILL DRAMATICALLY AFFECT HER RETIREMENT, IT IS HER CURRENT FINANCIAL SITUATION


AND FOR SINKING FAST, WHO DO YOU THINK I AM, SOMEONE THAT KNOWS NOTHING OF FAMILY AND THE ELDERLY? I AM MARRIED, HAVE TWO KIDS, MY PARENTS LIVE LESS THAN 5 MILES AWAY, THEY ARE BOTH OVER 70 AND THEY BOTH WORK, AND THEY WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO RETIRE

BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT YOU KEEP SAYING

"OH $100,000 WILL DRAMATICALLY AFFECT HER RETIREMENT"

WELL, 5 YEARS AT 50% RETURN WILL NET $90,000 AND IT IS NOT REASONABLE TO EXPECT THAT, NOR WHOULD SOMEONE THAT CLOSE TO RETIREMENT TAKE THAT RISK, AND EVEN IF THEY WERE ABLE TO GET 50% RETURN, WHICH AGAIN, IS HIGHLY UNLIKELY, YES HIGHLY, LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF THE MARKET, HOW MANY 5 YEAR PERIODS HAVE NETTED 50%, THAN SO WHAT? THEY CAN STILL GROW THEIR CURRENT BALANCE THAT MUCH AND IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS $100,000 SHOULD NOT BE THE MAKE OR BREAK AND DEPENDANT ON 50% RETURNS



WOW, I WONDER HOW LONG THIS POST IS!

[aa06a47]

bobby..has your eldery parents considered filing BK? I'm sure if you told them 100K wouldn't make a difference in there life right now, they would tell you that you were wrong. I don't know what they make at there jobs, but a 100K invested in a money market savings account would provide them with 450 / month in intereest without touching the principle. Some investment companies can give higher rates of return for 100K investments.

Anyway, think this is one of those subjects we all agree to not agree.

I have started a new thread on how to prepare for retirement if the nest egg isn't big enough. Post ideas

[bobby125]

bobby..has your eldery parents considered filing BK? I'm sure if you told them 100K wouldn't make a difference in there life right now, they would tell you that you were wrong. I don't know what they make at there jobs, but a 100K invested in a money market savings account would provide them with 450 / month in intereest without touching the principle. Some investment companies can give higher rates of return for 100K investments.

Anyway, think this is one of those subjects we all agree to not agree.

I have started a new thread on how to prepare for retirement if the nest egg isn't big enough. Post ideas

i still dont see how 5 years of 401k contributing is $100,000???

anyways, my dad told me he did file for bk many years ago

they are not terrible, they do clean houses, but it is very light work, i think they enjoy it....kind of people that need to work

anyways, yeah lets just end this thing, I think I stated what I thought already, that it cant be the next 5years, it has to have more to do with their current situation


AGREE TO DISAGREE

'OKAY?

[Jenny]

If you turned $100,000 into $700, SF, that explains plenty. You need a new financial adviser. Feel free to post a rant in a really big font.