New here...need help please

[keepsmiling]

Thank you keepsmiling So, something that I am really confused about is the national and local standards for determining available income. Are those standards the maximum that you get to keep? Or are you allowed to keep more based on your actual expenses as long as they are not considered excessive? This is where I am really confused...Will my lawyer use those standards as a guide and then work to get me to be able to keep more of my income to pay my bills that are not in the plan? Or should I just consider the national and local standards as the income that I will be able to keep?

The answer, like EVERYTHING in law, is "IT DEPENDS"! On local custom, on your particular trustee..... etc, etc, when it comes to fine particulars of how the law is applied both locally and individually.

You can definitely go with those numbers to rough out something for yourself. And then you will want a knowledgeable attorney to fine tune it.

Again, also... sometimes a (seemingly bizarre) solution is actually to Spend More Money- occasionally--- as in , buy a new car (especially if the old one is going); increase your insurance; or some other possibilities. Sometimes when we spend all of our money on payments to creditors, we have no choice but to scrimp on food... so the answer may be, spend like "regular" folks do lol.
A good lawyer will put you mind more at ease. He or she will be more familiar with the patterns and idiosyncrasies of your district.

Make those appointments today! 3 at a minimum, right? And don't worry, you won't have anything they haven't seen many times before.
Good luck, keep breathing and even smiling occasionally. Relief is at hand.

[switch625]

As for your car insurance, are you at zero deductible? If not you may want to do that because stuff happens. My windshield cracked during the winter and I had to pay out of pocket almost $300 because my insurance deductible was $500. The higher monthly premium should lower the DMI. Of course ask your attorneys if that is doable and passes muster with the trustee. Not going to zero on the deductible is one of the little things I overlooked in preparing for a Ch 13 BK that I'm paying for now.

[jmac]

I make about what you do and Im single so way less deductions, my payment was around 550 at first but had a little tax hit and payment ended up around 700. I made about 20-30k more a year then i had made the year i did my 341 meeting never heard anything. Bought a new car just before ch13 and had about 10% percent going to 401k the whole time with no problems. Do yourself a favor and spend a day at the court house watching 341 meeting and you will see some lawyers don't have a clue and read about you while driving to court house, some are ok but don't really care and some work hand and hand with the trustee very well, this is the one you want could save you lots of money over 5 years.

[Macdad123]

jmac...were you in a 100% plan? After going over my schedule I and J I don't think I will be now, so now I am worried about how I am going to make my monthly expenses if they only allow me the standard deductions. I will be about 400.00 short each month. I can trim some but not 400.00 worth.

[Pandora]

Your payment is once a month to the trustee. If you have to have payroll deduction to the trustee (some require it) then they will set up payroll deductions to be done however you get paid. Example: my husband gets paid the 15th & end of the month (30 /31st) so payroll took half of our Ch 13 payment each payday and sent to trustee before the due date. Before payroll was set up WE were responsible for making payments on time every month; we also had to make a double payment due to payroll deduction set up taking a while. Wasn't a big deal because we just ended up 1 month ahead in payments.

As the others had said, you won't know what your payment or even allowances will be until you sit down with a lawyer. Remember the Schedules and even the projected payment the laywer comes up with are just that...projected. The Trustee can allow or deny areas and payments (depending on what they are, how much, secured pay!ents, feasibility of plan, etc). There is so much more to this process than merely the Schedules.

Look around on the CH 13 forum and search for all the areas you should be putting on your schedules as you're missing quite a few (like deductibles, clothing expenses, entertainment, do you have trash service, pets, newspaper? The list goes on and on). While many of these areas will fall under other categories (I.e. medical, grocery, etc). If you dont include them in your monthly expense and you HAVE them, you're going to cut yourself short. As with everything, YMMV on what Trustee will allow if you're an over median filer as to using IRS standards only for your family size or if you can go above those standards assuming you can prove you have those expenses monthly. As far as worrying if you can or can't trim $400 a month based on your calculations above, $400 is nothing.....what happens when the car breaks down? Your heater /ac unit in house goes? Some emergency comes up? You HAVE to budget monthly for Murphy because he does come calling and often, trust me. That ER money has to come from cutting and sacrificing other areas. Your lifestyle as you know it is going to change and drastically. Be ready for that change all the way around. It's also why I said earlier the first question you need to ask is can you afford the house even after filing BK, no matter if Ch 13 or 7.

One thing you need to talk to your college aged child about is if trustee doesn't allow college expense (student loan payment) and it goes into deferment, is the college going to suspend them from attending? Some college loans or direct financing thru the school can be affected....our daughter is currently experiencing this although not due to our BK...but her own issues.

Take a breath.... . We've all been where you are but trying to figure it all out by yourself is nearly impossible.

[switch625]

I made about 20-30k more a year then i had made the year i did my 341 meeting never heard anything. ...and had about 10% percent going to 401k the whole time with no problems

Were you contributing 10% before you filed your petition? If so, how long before you filed the petition? If it was after, how did you pull that off?

Did the trustee not raise your payment after the raises?

I expect a raise in 2016 and hoping I get to keep it. I'm looking to make 401K contributions but don't want to make trouble either

[Pandora]

Some college loans or direct financing thru the school can be affected....our daughter is currently experiencing this although not due to our BK...but her own issues.

Just to reiterate.... This issue is not due to our BK but given our daughter is now suspended from attending college due to some VA/GI bill issues for non - payment /deferral on their end, I wanted to mention this because she financed through the school directly.

[LadyInTheRed]

Were you contributing 10% before you filed your petition? If so, how long before you filed the petition? If it was after, how did you pull that off?

Did the trustee not raise your payment after the raises?

I expect a raise in 2016 and hoping I get to keep it. I'm looking to make 401K contributions but don't want to make trouble either

Whether a raise will result in an increased plan payment depends on the amount of raise, the plan and the trustee. I had small raises (about 2%) every year durinhg my plan and I called may attorney every time to make sure we didn't have to notify the trustee. I got the same answer every time: "Congratulations. Just keep making your plan payment." Some plans and court rules require you report all increases or increases over a certain amount. Some trustees require that you send in your tax returns each year and might propose an increase in the payment if they see a significant increase in income. I did not have to send tax returns to my trustee.

Like me, if jmac had filed later, he might not have been able to have 401K contributions as an expense if they weren't mandatory. There was a 9th Circuit decision in 2012 that ruled 401K contributions are not allowable expenses. If you are in a different circuit, then the law may be different.

[Macdad123]

Pandora, I expect that things are going to have to change. I am already locked into a tight budget as I barely make ends meet each month. I pay the minimum on a card and use the 30.00 balance I get for gas that month or extra groceries etc. As far as the house goes, I am not going to be able to rent a place for my family much cheaper that the 1450 a month that I pay. The thing that will make the house expensive is paying back the HELOC at about 1200 per month but that comes out of what I pay before money goes to the unsecured correct?

As far as the student loans... those are my loans for going back and getting my masters degree, my son has his own loans in his own name. My BK should not have any effect on those should it? I am just worried about having enough to pay my monthly bills. I know things will come up and I know there will be emergencies. Fortunately I have a pretty good family network and I know if there was an emergency like that my mother in law would help us out with those type of emergencies.

Also if I have more specific questions about something should I start a new thread in order to just get an answer to that question? This one is getting long and I just want to follow proper forum protocol

[Macdad123]

I have not met with any attorneys yet but I did find one in my area that used to be a staff attorney for the standing trustee in my district. This particular trustee in the middle district of Florida has recently retired, but I would think given his back ground he would have a idea of how the system works. What do you guys think? I know I need to meet with at least 3, but he would probably be a good pace to start?

[LadyInTheRed]

The thing that will make the house expensive is paying back the HELOC at about 1200 per month but that comes out of what I pay before money goes to the unsecured correct?

yes

My BK should not have any effect on those should it?

No, it should not.

I am just worried about having enough to pay my monthly bills.

Based on the details you have provided, it sounds like your monthly plan payment will be less than your current minimum payments. If you are already cutting expenses to the bone, your plan very well may give you more to spend every month. Mine did.

Also if I have more specific questions about something should I start a new thread in order to just get an answer to that question? This one is getting long and I just want to follow proper forum protocol

It's up to you. This thread has a lot of helpful background. But, if you have a specific question about a single issue, you will probably get more responses in a new thread where people don't have to read through details that may not be relevant to the new question. Just be sure to provide whatever background information is relevant to your question and don't re ask the same questions you asked here. You could also include a link to this thread for people who want more details.

I have not met with any attorneys yet but I did find one in my area that used to be a staff attorney for the standing trustee in my district. This particular trustee in the middle district of Florida has recently retired, but I would think given his back ground he would have a idea of how the system works. What do you guys think? I know I need to meet with at least 3, but he would probably be a good pace to start?

A former trustee could be an excellent choice and should definitely be on your list of consultations. One thing I would watch out for is to make sure he is not so conservative that he won't be a vigorous advocate for you. There is no reason an attorney should not be able to "switch sides" so to speak. You just want to be sure he will look at things from his new perspective and not the old perspective. Representing debtors very well may not be a new perspective got him. He may have been a BK attorney before he was a trustee. That's a good question to ask.

[jange]

Were you contributing 10% before you filed your petition? If so, how long before you filed the petition? If it was after, how did you pull that off?

Did the trustee not raise your payment after the raises?

I expect a raise in 2016 and hoping I get to keep it. I'm looking to make 401K contributions but don't want to make trouble either

switch625, trustee never cared about my raises 2-3% or my 401K. I did have a loan when I filed, loan was paid off 2+ years later, I switched it to 401k contributions for the same amount, then over the last 2 years raised my contributions to 10%.

2014 I opened 2 roth IRA's for 2013 and started contributing to them. Except for my annual statement which I didn't receive in 2015, I never heard from the trustee and just made my payments on time.
I also receive a bonus every year, in 2010 when we filed he did take a piece that raised my payments initially about $100-150, but since he didn't want the tax returns, it was never adjusted after that.
Guess it just depends on the trustee.

[jmac]

Were you contributing 10% before you filed your petition? If so, how long before you filed the petition? If it was after, how did you pull that off?

Did the trustee not raise your payment after the raises?

I expect a raise in 2016 and hoping I get to keep it. I'm looking to make 401K contributions but don't want to make trouble either

Yea 10% before petition, only payment raise i got was the first year i filed, i had just become divorced also so my taxes were way off but added to the plan so my payment for the last 4 years has been the same. I got them dialed in now so i break even and and trustee gets nothing. Another big thing is a good car, i spent 550 bucks a month on it and had a reliable car with a warranty, without that trustee get the 550.

[jmac]

12 %

[switch625]

switch625, trustee never cared about my raises 2-3% or my 401K. I did have a loan when I filed, loan was paid off 2+ years later, I switched it to 401k contributions for the same amount, then over the last 2 years raised my contributions to 10%.

2014 I opened 2 roth IRA's for 2013 and started contributing to them. Except for my annual statement which I didn't receive in 2015, I never heard from the trustee and just made my payments on time.
I also receive a bonus every year, in 2010 when we filed he did take a piece that raised my payments initially about $100-150, but since he didn't want the tax returns, it was never adjusted after that.
Guess it just depends on the trustee.

Thanks LITR, jmac and Jange. Jange, I think you and I have the same trustee, so that is nice to hear. Like you, I haven't been asked to submit anything and all I received was the annual statement.