Trustees Statement

[dmc-2008]

Hi there,
Today I rec yearly statement. Just a little confused... I pay 400.00 a month, it says I am paying back 15%, and it states there is a principal balance of approx 5500.00.

I just made my 28th payment. So I have about 32 payments to go. I took 400 *32 and it comes out 12,800.

Where am I messing up? Obviously $$$ and ### not my strong suit,

Once I reach the balance I just keep paying? Couldn't they have made the % bigger to begin with?

Thanks so much!!!!

[justbroke]

Using the National Data Center or 13Network to determine what's really going on, is like trying to guess the value of every single stock on the stock market and wondering why you missed most of them. The tool is really for the Trustee and they use it to manage the case. The balance is what is left based on your "base plan" amount.

I don't know what you mean by "principal" balance. The NDC should show you, Balance on hand (what the Trustee has received but not disbursed), a Percentage to Unsecured (which is REALLY arbitrary if you ask me, so don't go by this!), Plan Base (which is the minimum amount you must pay over the "commitment period"), Total Paid into Plan (how much the Trustee has received), Total Paid to All parties (how much disbursed), and Total Paid to Creditors (what ALL creditors have received to date less the Trustee, Attorney and other administrative priority debts).

When I wrote not to "go by this" and that the Percentage is "arbitrary", I really mean just that. The % to Unsecured can change based on tax refunds (if you're required to submit them) or other disposable income that gets applied to the Plan Base.

[spidge]

It is a bit confusing, but the plan was based on the debts you owed when you filed and not the claims within the plan. Those who made a claim will be paid a higher percentage as they gained where those who did not make a claim lost out.
Focus on the base though, but you already know that, and don't sweat the rest. I watch that number closely too, but I understand the base must be satisfied. I would be done if the percentage had to be satisfied.

[dmc-2008]

So the statement I rec came from NDC that the trustee just printed it out? Thanks!!!

[justbroke]

So the statement I rec came from NDC that the trustee just printed it out? Thanks!!!

I don't know which system that your Trustee uses. Some use TrustWin. Some use 13Network. There may be others. All of the data from all the systems is in the National Data Center (NDC).

[dmc-2008]

Ok I appreaciate it. But I still don't understand why they wouls calculate my payment so that I will pay my base off way before I make 60 payments. It's just weird. ;-).

[justbroke]

Ok I appreaciate it. But I still don't understand why they wouls calculate my payment so that I will pay my base off way before I make 60 payments. It's just weird. ;-).

Do not trust what you see online. Just worry about keeping your payments. The Trustee may not have adjusted some of the data in that system. Many Trustees have their own accounting systems as well, but everything must be in NDC. Trying to figure out what the Trustee is doing, by looking at the data in NDC, is enough to make a person go mad. Don't go mad.

I know that in my case, most of the numbers were good but I could never understand the % to unsecured creditors or the base. Those are the values that are likely to change as your case progresses.

[dmc-2008]

Oh I haven't gone online but maybe once in the last couple of years. This info is from my yearly statement that I got in the mail. Prob the same info though. ;-)

[spidge]

Oh I haven't gone online but maybe once in the last couple of years. This info is from my yearly statement that I got in the mail. Prob the same info though. ;-)

There is a bit more online to confuse even further. I like 13Network even though it dose not show the plan base like NDC does.

I like to check the online accounts so that I can enjoy my little success as debts get paid off and I see the principle owed shrink. I can't wait to see how it reads after this last payment we made.

[dmc-2008]

Hi Spidge, does the "principal owed" on your account online match the payment you make multiplied by the months you have left? Thanks!

[spidge]

Hi Spidge, does the "principal owed" on your account online match the payment you make multiplied by the months you have left? Thanks!

No, because the principle owed is based on those creditors who made claims. It does match the "Plan Base" which is based on the court approved disposable income and the plan in the beginning of the case was to consider all submitted creditors. It is a bit involved to calculate it based on the info given because the trustee is paid a little every month too. I think my trustee is set to get 3%, but don't quote me on that.

I struggled with this when I first started keeping tabs on it, but decided to just enjoy watching the balances drop. I must say that the few unsecured creditors that made claims on my BK will make out fairly well. Their paybacks will likely exceed what I would have paid if settled outside BK.

[justbroke]

The percentage to the Trustee is fixed by the Office of the United States Trustee (OUST). In a Chapter 13, many Standing Trustees, by local order, charge a 10% rate during the lifetime of the plan. They claim to use the 10% value because the actual rate could change during the Chapter 13 plan and filing motions to modify a confirmed plan to change the rate, would be tedious and expensive. In Florida, the Districts allow the Trustee 10%. At the end of the plan, the Trustee must reconcile his/her actual rate which is typically closer to 6%.

You have to remember that, in a Chapter 13, the Trustee's "fee" depletes the unsecured creditor pool of money (where the unsecured creditors are getting greater than 0%). In about 99% of Chapter 13 cases, the debtor is not paying anything "more" for the Trustee since the unsecured creditors just get less. At the end of the plan, the Trustee reconciles his "actual" rate and pays the unsecured creditors what is left over. In Florida, this means that unsecured creditors will likely get 3-4% of the plan base. (Even a 0% Chapter 13 will yield a dividend to unsecured creditors under this scenario, unless the Trustee fee is actually the full 10%.)

[sophieanne]

Greetings everyone from beautiful, sunny WA state. I just wrote to say I received the yearly letter from my trustee. We don't receive a yearly statement, we get a letter that tells us to review our data on the national data center (he got us all to sign up for the NDC and 13Network when we started). Check the National Data Center for up-to-date information on your case and report any discrepancies to your attorney. We're in a 100% plan so pretty easy to watch. The only claims showing to be paid are those that filed a claim. All our secure debt has been paid off (car loan) and we pay our mortgage outside the plan so it's easy to follow. I agree that it's nice to watch the account balance numbers going down, however it still makes me sick when i see total we have paid in to date. Good for the creditors, sad for me.

[dmc-2008]

I don't know why it stresses me out to think about going online to look, but I guess I better go look!

[LadyInTheRed]

I don't know why it stresses me out to think about going online to look, but I guess I better go look!

If you want. But, as long as you make the payments required by your confirmed plan, there is nothing to worry about.