Have a real mess...long post...

[ozzy866]

I have never seen or read anything like this...It is a big mess...
We did a chap. 13 over 5 years ago that was converted into a chap. 7. In the 13 our house was NOT reaffirmed...Well onto the conversion to the 7. Our lawyer at the time got all the paperwork transferred for the conversion to the 7. We were super stressed at the time...We signed everything for the chap. 7 conversion. Seemed like everything went well. We moved to a different state for wife's job.
5 years later and major life threatening medical issues we were back in financial ruin. We contacted a lawyer in our new state and got everything ready to file a new chapter 13. After we filed we got an objection from a mortgage firms lawyer that we owed money on the previous property we though was taken care of---abandoned...
This really put a shock in us because we did not hear anything about that property for the last 5 years. I emailed my old lawyer who did the prior BK and he said the property was not reaffirmed in the conversion to the 7...Ok that is great....However I looked on Pacer at all the documents and it did say we reaffirmed. I emailed the old lawyer back and he said YES I was right it did get reaffirmed BUT no plan of payback was scheduled. DAMN...I know we were responsible to read all paperwork-----we missed the box that was checked REAFIRM ---ok now trying to move on to a solution in the new 13 with a new lawyer.
The new 13 was filed and objection was filed. I emailed the new lawyer back and fourth many times with copies of the converted 7 and original 13. They said I need to talk to my old lawyer....Well we did and he says the new lawyer is doing the new 13...This has gone back and fourth for several days. Our 341 is early next week.
I don't know if or who the mortgage is with or sold to. It started with Countrywide---was switched to BOA and now someone I have no idea who is handling it now.
We don't know who to call for information....Our new lawyer doesn't seem to be proactive here. We have paid this lawyer and can't switch due to finances.
Does anyone have some helpful thoughts or ideas???
OZ

[LadyInTheRed]

I'm not sure what your question is. What is the purpose of contacting the old lawyer? Are you just trying to get the information to list the mortgage on the petition in your current BK? That info should be in your prior filing. It seems that all you need to do is amend your petition to include the mortgage, assuming it was really reaffirmed.

Are you sure the loan was actually reaffirmed? It takes more than checking the box. Make sure a reaffirmation agreement was signed by you and the bank and filed with the court with a statement signed by your attorney that the reaffirmation is not an undue hardship. If your attorney did not sign such a statement, the judge would have had to approve the reaffirmation. Does the discharge say that the mortgage is excluded from discharge? If not, check PACER for a filed and approved reaffirmation agreement if your attorney hasn't already done so.

[despritfreya]

Lady hit the nail on the head. If you reaffirmed and/or the property is still in your name you

1. Amend Schedule A to list the property;
2. Amend Schedule D to list the secured creditor; and
3. Amend the Chapter 13 Plan to show surrender of the property.

This should be a no brainer to your current attny.

Lastly, if there was an HOA you need to add the HOA for all post Chapter 7 fees/dues/assessments and you need to discuss with your current bk attny any issues that may need addressing relative to post Chapter 13 fees/dues/assessments.

Des.

[ozzy866]

Thank you both for helping...
Lady thanks--I contacted the old lawyer to see what happened in the 7. He ended up saying yes we reaffirmed but there was no plan signed for repayment. I checked pacer for the info but wanted to confirm with the first lawyer.
Lady---Yes it was just the checked box nothing planned or signed on a repayment. Does that mean it is discharged?
Des thanks---I contacted my attorney and apparently I have frustrated him and his staff over these questions on the mortgage. I felt a bit uneasy when he got on the phone to say let us do our job we are good at this. We were just shocked when a service company filed an objection on our plan and was asking for a ton of money $200,000+ on a property we thought was taken care of in the earlier 7.
I didn't think we were asking the current attorney to many questions---we just wanted to understand the mortgage and if we needed to do something. We definitely can't afford any property. Maybe the property is discharged already-----I don't see any plan on repayment on pacer just the reaffirm box checked on the 7.
Maybe I am triping out too much and over thinking. Financial and health are not well. I want my wife to be ok without some old mortgage we have not been to in half a decade.
Thanks again
OZ

[LadyInTheRed]

Lady---Yes it was just the checked box nothing planned or signed on a repayment. Does that mean it is discharged?

You checked a box on your statement of intentions. It is not binding. But, I wonder why your former attorney would say you reaffirmed if you didn't. For a debt to be reaffirmed you must sign a reaffirmation agreement. The reaffirmation agreement must be filed with the bankruptcy court with a statement by your attorney indicating it is not a hardship for you to reaffirm. If your attorney doesn't make that statement, the reaffirmation agreement must be approved by the judge.

When you checked PACER, if there isn't a reaffirmation agreement, the loan was not reaffirmed. If the loan was not reaffirmed, it was included on your schedules, and there is nothing in the discharge order excluding it from discharge, then it was discharged.

But, whether it was reaffirmed or not, it can be dealt with in your current BK.

You very well may be tripping out too much. It's hard to tell because you don't describe the situation very well. Reading between the lines, I suspect that the reason you are tripping and annoying your attorney is that you don't understand what is going on. Your attorney should explain things to you, but either your attorney isn't good at explaining things or you are too panicked and focused on what happened in the past to listen and understand to what is going on now.

Have you been calm in your discussions with your current attorney and listened to what he has to say about the current situation? What did he attorney advise you about the mortgage? Why did he tell you to contact your former attorney? What did he say he would do in response to the creditor's objection? Was the debt listed on your current petition? With answers to these questions, maybe we can help explain what is going on or make suggestions on how to discuss this with your attorney in a way that will produce the answers you need.

[ozzy866]

Thank you Lady.....This may sound a little mixed up but I tried to answer your questions.
We didn't sign a reaffirmation agreement on the 7 so I think our previous lawyer accidently kept the reaffirmation box checked from the previous 13 that we converted. In the previous 13 we were reaffirming the house. We couldn't afford it so we did the 7. also other reasons for converting to the 7.
There is no reaffirmation agreement on pacer for the 7. It has on different forms about reaffirmation but no agreement like the one on pacer for the previous 13 where we did reaffirm.
You are probably right----I am too panicked....
The current attorney advised me to relax and let them do there job and that they are good at it. It made me nervous when the mortgage came into play in this 13. I will learn to listen...
The debt is not currently listed on the petition.
OZ

[LadyInTheRed]

Did your attorney explain what he will do in response to the creditor's objection? Relaxing and letting your attorney do his job is good. But, part of his job is to explain to you how he will respond to an objection.