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**Pandora** · 07-10-2013, 03:12 AM

not sure what your monthly income is vs. debt as you dont have it listed; family of 3 with expenses as high as yours are makes me believe you are possibly over median. You may not be able to claim certain expenses above the IRS standards if you are over median. It appears you are using the IRS standards, however for housing and utilities, are what you listed your actual expenses? You may have to prove them.

From IRS website:

The taxpayer is allowed the standard amount, or the amount actually spent on housing and utilities, whichever is less. If the amount claimed is more than the total allowed by the housing and utilities standards, the taxpayer must provide documentation to substantiate those expenses are necessary living expenses.

I will tell you that summer camp is probably not going to fly as its not a necessity but a luxury. How old is your child?

Clothing: seems high; we're a family of 3 and were allowed $75 per month for clothing, combined.

Pool: We had to include our pool maintenance costs by taking from other areas.

haircuts: seems high for a monthly cost as most people dont get their hair cut every month but usually every 2 or so.

Tithing: is allowed but Trustee may make you prove you spend it.

Dont see a car payment anywhere - do you own them outright?

Other things I dont see: Health insurance deductibles, medical copays (unless you're including them in the $60 pperson); AAA (if you have it), newspaper / magazines, medication costs (if any).

I'm sure others will chime in as well.

**Pjmax** · 07-10-2013, 06:38 AM

As I understand it, those are OP's actual expenses. Christeyanne, I would give your attorney your actual expenses, with any possible additions Pandora mentioned, you want to list everything. Your attorney will guide you as to what is allowable or not, but it's good that you posted it here so others can prepare you for what you may have to cut back on, as well as offer advice if your attorney doesn't think something is acceptable.

Now, I would start work on a 2nd budget, the absolute minimum you can live on. There may be a lot of things you can cut back on. I agree with Pandora, a lot of your items seem high (for a BK family, anyway.)

**salsa** · 07-10-2013, 01:08 PM

I'd also be surprised if pool maintenace would be allowed. I think you will need to absorb that elsewhere. Also, school lunches will likely need to come from your food budget. The camp and music lessons/activities I would think won't be allowed either.

**christeyanne** · 07-10-2013, 04:26 PM

Thanks for responses. Pandora, yes, the mortagage and utilites are my actual expenses. I just went through and budgeted everything we spend money on and what our actual bills are. Some of the titles are from the IRS spreadsheets with the allowence. Quite enlightening and perhaps had I done this years ago we wouldn't be in this mess. The Apparel & services 209.00 was taken from the April 2013 IRS spreadsheet for expenses unless I misread. I've seen others post on here that they did get an allowence for pool mainteanance, kids activities and pets, etc. (I wouldn't have listed those if I didn't see someone else get approval, I agree seems kinda crazy) guess it depends on Trustee and worth a shot or at least have atty decide. As far as summer camp goes, we have an 8 year old and both work, it works out to $30 a day for the summer. If we didn't have camp it would be a babysitter, neighbors are paying $10 hour so for us that would be $80 a day to get someone in. Perhaps I should change title to summer daycare? Together we bring home about $7000, our unsecured debt payments on loans and credit cards are at $3,500. We currently owe about $144,000 in unsecured. So we are shy quite a bit of money, hence the mess we are in. We also have two 10 year old cars that are starting to fall apart. Meeting with first atty this Friday. Just a wreck right now. I agree we should be able to cut back on a lot of things, been living too high on the hog for awhile.

**Pandora** · 07-11-2013, 04:06 AM

your cars are 10 years old.... what are the chances of them lasting through a 5 year plan? If your net income is truly $7000 a month and your expenses (as listed and if allowed by Trustee) are $5962, then you're looking at one hell of a Ch. 13 payment.

Have you considered getting / leasing newer cars that would lower your possible payback? It's always harder (and more money to the lawyer on occasion) to change your plan once submitted in order to add a new car and dispose of the old one. Since you have a lawyer, I'd ask him/her how to proceed with a newer vehicle.

**christeyanne** · 07-11-2013, 04:21 AM

Pandora, yes. We plan to ask attorney about getting 2 new cars when we see him tomorrow. I know I had posted about getting new cars last year and a lot of people recommened getting them before we file to carry us the next 5 years. The 2 we currently have will not last another 5 years, that much I know.

**jmac** · 07-17-2013, 10:26 PM

Get a car!

**dmc-2008** · 07-18-2013, 05:13 AM

I think netflix would be entertainment, gym would be cut out, lessons wouls be as well - camp might be disallowed unless your kids under 14. You have a lot of wants vs needs in the budget.

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First Stab at Expenses Spreadsheet - Any comments appreciated.

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