Not so easy to sell old broken down car but need transportation in chapter 13 :(

[lillymarlene]

Just thought I'd update on my situation about selling my automobile. I'm about 2/3 the way through my chapter 13, and thought I might sell my "classic" sportscar to maybe give myself a little extra $$. I knew I had to ask my attorney, since I have one of those Confirmation Orders that states in so many words, that all property of the "estate shall vest to the debtor only upon discharge...the debtor shall be responsible for preserving and protecting the property of the estate."

I just got an e-mail back today that a motion to allow the sale would have to be filed and the MINIMUM FEE would be $500. Well, I guess I'm not selling that car anytime soon. It's just too much speculation. I'm afraid I'd pay the money, and then not be able to sell the car.

Then of course there's more to the story. My old car, or so I've been told needs a lot of work. The power steering needs repair, it has a rusted rear end, and now will not run without jumping (old battery needs replacing.) I was told this may run between $500 using junkyard parts, to $1500. So this rustbucket has been sitting in my yard, while I'm forced to pay $950 yr insurance on it.

For transportation, I have been using my deceased boyfriend's "plain jane" type vehicle, that is insured by and registered to his mother. His family who has been a lot of help, would like to give that car to me, and register it in my name.

So what should I do? I'm going to need a dependable vehicle. His so far, though, it's a little bit older than mine, seems to be in better condition. Should I try to pay for repairs on the rustbucket, and give the plain jane back to the family? Or let the family give me the "plain jane" and pay for insurance on the 2 cars?

[keepmine]

Since we all need reliable transportation, I'd gratefully accept the more reliable ride.
If you're not going to try the your car, prehaps cancel the insurance and registration.

[lillymarlene]

Thanks, keepmine. I'd just as soon do that, but I'm afraid I was told at the 341, that I have to keep up all insurance, health, home and automobile as part of my plan. That my car was considered property of the estate. I guess I'll have to ask my attorney what would happen if I just let the insurance lapse on my sportscar and let it sit in my yard until discharge, while insuring another vehicle.

[LadyInTheRed]

Assuming the sportscar will get you through your Chap 13 after it's repaired, why not accept the gift and sell that car to pay for repairs on your car. Run it by your attorney first, but I am pretty sure a gift received post-petition is not an asset of the estate in which case you wouldn't need the trustee's authorization to sell it.

[keepsmiling]

Am I the only one who thinks it's crazy to have to pay insurance on an unusable car?
What kind of a tt wouldn't understand this?
Maybe you should have it towed to his house :P...since it's his property and all.
Sometimes this stuff just makes no sense.

LITR's idea is good too

[momofthree]

I wouldn't pay insurance on a non-op car. We have a non-op motorcycle, it has been uninsured since before we filed and we have a non-op filed thru DMV too so that we don't pay registration fees on it. It was never a problem for the TT. I think the insurance thing is so that you're not driving around uninsured and creating a huge potential financial liability in case of accident. I'd double check with your attny, accept the gifted car, and quit insuring the first.

[lillymarlene]

LITR and momofthree, those are both good ideas. I'm going to check with my attorney, but I am going to try and make it so that I only have to insure one car and have transportation for the rest of this 13.

[AngelinaCat]

Yes, you need to take the tag off the old car and take it off your insurance. The insurance can eat you alive. Of course, I am in Florida, and you in California, so I am not sure what your laws are there about untagged cars in the driveway or yard.

When asked about a 1968 Chevy Impala that I had:

TT: "On a scale of from 'Show Room Quality' to 'housing squirrels', which is it?"

Me: "Well, it is a little bit better than 'housing squirrels', but it has been on blocks for four years, needs brakes, and the green color that it currently is, is mold and NOT paint. The real color is light blue."

The trustee 'Abandoned Interest' in it very quickly. However, we were an Asset 7, not a 13.

We did sell it well after we were discharged and closed, for 4K. It had been housed in a garage, and miraculously after sitting for 4 years, the gasoline was still good. 'Hub and I replaced the brakes and we were good to go. This does NOT happen often.

[LadyInTheRed]

Yes, you need to take the tag off the old car and take it off your insurance. The insurance can eat you alive. Of course, I am in Florida, and you in California, so I am not sure what your laws are there about untagged cars in the driveway or yard.

Lillymarlene is in Massachusetts and I don't know how it works there. But, in California, the license plate and tags stay on the vehicle, unless you have a personalized plate. If you are not going to operate the vehicle, or park or tow it on public roads, you register for Planned Non-Operation status. When the vehicle is in PNO status, no insurance is required under state law. But, that doesn't mean the vehicle doesn't have to be insured to satisfy the confirmation order's requirement that the debtor preserve and protect the property of the estate. Perhaps homeowners or renters insurance will protect the vehicle from damage while it is parked in the yard. lillymarlene, please let us know what your attorney says.

[AngelinaCat]

Here in Florida, the tag stays with the person. It used to be that the tag stayed with the car, but that hasn't been the case for nearly 20 years. And you can call the insurance company and inform them that the car is off the road and have it removed from your insurance.

However, some HOA rules, and city/county ordinances will not permit an untagged vehicle to sit in the yard for an extended period of time. One has to check with local city and county ordinances. Some places will compel the owner or such a vehicle to have it towed after a certain period of time.

Everything varys with these types of local rules/ordinances.

[AngelinaCat]

I should add that for Florida residents, if you want to transfer the tag to another person, right now it costs about $80.00 or so. If you have to get a new tag, that is around $200.

As the state, cities, municipalities, and counties, all feel their budgets decreasing, they keep looking for ways to increase or impose new FEES on everyone. A fee is a TAX, folks.

Our fair city just imposed four red light cameras in town. And the object plainly was to get some revenue for the town, although most of the $158 fine is servicing fees for the cameras, and goes to a company in Cincinnati.

[LadyInTheRed]

A fee is a TAX, folks.

Not true. It's very important to understand the difference because it is often easier for lawmakers to impose a new fee than it is to impose a new tax. People should be educated about the difference so they know when their elected representatives are breaking the law by passing a tax, but calling it a fee so it's easier to pass. This is very off topic and getting into a prohibited political discussion, so I'm not going to get into the difference between the two. That can be easily found in a google search.

Anybody know the law in Massachusetts about registration of cars that will not be driven?

[AngelinaCat]

Yes, I know the legislators get around the *tax* angle by the nomenclature and parsing of words. But the fact still remains that I have to pay money for this service, that service, and the privilege of staying on my own land.

[lillymarlene]

Thanks for pointing out that city ordinances could be a problem.