All My Questions So Far About Chapter 13

[moe]

Thank you for all that great advice ValleyYum and everyone!!!

Wow, that is great to know about prospective expenses. That changes everything. I really could file sooner.

My daughter's already in gradeschool--right now daughter's afterschool care is only $300 a month but that is only for 3 days. Because of our work schedule we need babysitters constantly but we have never documented that because we pay them under the table (they are college students, I'm pretty sure this is not illegal? Maybe it is? I never thought about it until now!)'

Full time infant daycare starts at about $1500 and goes up from there. Scary!!! I don't know how we did it with our first!!! I remember I used to be so sad because the places we could afford weren't very nice at all and the nice places were crazy expensive--like $2,000. If we could scrape together money for an au pair this would be the cheapest thing for a baby. I wish we could afford a regular, experienced nanny...

Would a trustee really question the orthodontia? Good grief! That's crazy.

I heard that you could document pet expenses, which we do have. But if the trustee questions a kid's orthodontics then I guess that is unlikely! But do you have to give away your pets?

What if the trustee is a big jerk and says things that aren't true? Can you take your case to a judge?

If you get a terrible judgment can you back out of bankruptcy? This is why I would not want to stop paying minimums until I found out what I was in for.

[keepsmiling]

It sounds to me like you manage your money ok. You just got into the same boat most of us here did with credit being handed out like lollipops at the bank! In fact you showed creativity and ingenuity at making it all work. But as you can see, there is no end in sight, and that's how the cc companies want it!!!! It's not your fault!

Stop paying those cc's soon. Maybe yesterday. Think about buying a car before you file, maybe even two, before your credit is ruined. I will not be even a little bit shocked if you able to do a 7.. In fact you really should be thinking in that direction first. Over and done.

The only reason I mentioned the minimums was to point out that your expenses would not be HIGHER in a 13 lol. It wasn't meant to indicate that you needed to cover them! In fact you may wind up in a 13 in which your only payments are the mortgage and the cars.

Before you stop paying, start learning about Google Voice and taking your phone numbers off your account info while you still have access. AND some attorneys will even consult with you by phone- try asking.

Hang in there,you are going to be fine!!!

[keepsmiling]

Worst case,yes,you can back out of a 13 at any time.Not a 7.
And yes you can go before a judge.
BUT most of your worries are truly needless. You're going to be surprised when it's all over and wonder why you didn't do this sooner lol.

btw...trustees and judges have kids too. They know what daycare costs. When you stop paying the cc's the money will flow much differently. You aren't expected to live on ramen noodles. Really!

[ValleYum]

Someone else here paid a babysitter/nanny under the table - nothing was said by the Trustee about her amount so it was a non-issue.

Yes, you can have pets and their expenses. JustBroke always says (paraphrasing is mine): "if you claim expenses for pets make sure you show the pets as your 'property' on the proper schedule".

I just said that about the proof for the braces just in case - you never know and you sound like you are the type of person who would rather have your ducks in a row BUT PLEASE don't let what I said make you worry!!!!

Like KS said, you likely will be amazed once you are in your BK how simple it really was.

[moe]

Keep Smiling

Thank you! Bankruptcy hits me in my most neurotic places.

Besides that, it is torture for all parents, I am sure. You feel like you are failing your kids. I feel like I am putting my kids in a situation where I can't protect them or provide for their needs necessarily. My kid can't go 5 years without help for her issues. These years are critical. And of course she is a genius! Lol.

I am frugal--very frugal--but I don't manage money well. I'm an extremely disorganized person now that I have kids. Before I had kids I had the wherewithal but now I'm overwhelmed and my brain doesn't work right. But the way I make it work is to pinch every penny. This doesn't work that well sometimes but usually it works OK. Kids are expensive.

The funniest thing happened recently where I realized that my kid isn't dressed that nice so I was all set to buy her a bunch of things 75% off at Old Navy but then she found, somehow, these couple of cast off shorts and wears them every day. And she honestly is very happy in these shorts and one pair is from several years ago and somehow fits her and I asked her 'don't you want newer clothes' and she insists that no, she is a tomboy and this is what she wants to wear EVERY DAY. There is no point to buying her clothes, she only wants to wear these 3 pairs of t-shirts and these 2 pairs of shorts because being a scruffy tomboy is cool to her.

So obviously, I MUST declare before this kid hits Jr. High and her natural frugality is destroyed by peer pressure!!! If I declare now she'll be about 14-15 and maybe I will be able to buy her cooler clothes by then and she'll forgive me for our being so broke.

I have a career and so it makes me self conscious to be a slob but heck, if she can do it, I can do it.

Of course, she's not like that with toys. She'd make me get her a new toy every day if she had her way!!!

So after all these years of sketchy employment and parenthood I do have a TERRIBLE time not paying my bills and NOT being frugal. Like--how crazy is this--even though my cars are over 10 years old I don't want to declare bankruptcy if I have to get a newer car. I want to wait until one of my cars dies forever. Getting a car with a car payment feels like such a waste! I've never had a car payment--ever. I get a beater and run it into the ground. Unfortunately, I moved away from my source of good beaters so I may just have to suck it up with a car payment if I want a car to last me 5 more years. It will be hard for me to do that though, really hard.

You are reminding me our washing machine is broken and I better get one of those though! OMG a baby without a washing machine would be difficult!!! We don't have a dishwasher but I probably won't be able to deal with splurging on that.

I LOVED google voice and then it stopped working on my phone and nothing I can do will make it work and I can't seem to get tech support from google. I lost my phone and I had insurance on it but then I found it again and when they disabled it, I could never get google voice to work on it ever again no matter what I tried.

But if you are talking about avoiding creditors' phone calls sadly I doubt it is a psychological possibility for me probably to stop paying my minimums until I have a legal judgment from the court. I would be freaking out with anxiety at the thought of it. It is not worth the mental torment. I don't even care about the phone calls--just the thought of it would make me very anxious. If I thought it would get me out of debt I'd probably sell a kidney on the black market!!! But I found out kidneys aren't worth enough!!! They only give you $20,000 I heard.

This is really going to take me months to sort out mentally. I almost pulled the trigger once and could not deal with it. I am trying to be stronger now!!! I appreciate your help--unfortunately you may see me again as I agonize my way through this process.

[keepsmiling]

MOE-- this is crazy hormones talking! No kidneys eesh. See my pm

[keepsmiling]

Keep Smiling



But if you are talking about avoiding creditors' phone calls sadly I doubt it is a psychological possibility for me probably to stop paying my minimums until I have a legal judgment from the court. I would be freaking out with anxiety at the thought of it. It is not worth the mental torment. I don't even care about the phone calls--just the thought of it would make me very anxious. If I thought it would get me out of debt I'd probably sell a kidney on the black market!!! But I found out kidneys aren't worth enough!!! They only give you $20,000 I heard.

This is really going to take me months to sort out mentally. I almost pulled the trigger once and could not deal with it. I am trying to be stronger now!!! I appreciate your help--unfortunately you may see me again as I agonize my way through this process.

#1.We HOPE to see you again. You are NO DIFFERENT than the rest of us in this (as far as bk goes anyway, I'm not getting pg anytime soon lol)
#2. You need a NEW MANTRA. How about this "I"m done flushing money down the toilet. My family comes FIRST.... way way way before the banks who don't give a carp whether I live in a box the rest of my life". Seriously, this is what you are doing. Make an Executive Decision as CEO of Moe's Family Inc. that you are done,because this is literally what you are doing.
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[moe]

Well I was really kidding about the kidney--although I probably would do it if someone gave me a huge sum-- and you are right I am crazy on these pregnancy hormones!!!

The third trimester is the worst. You become obsessed with having your life in order but I have so much work right now, no time to get it all in order.

It actually does seem easier though than Chapter 13--to me anyway!!!

[LadyInTheRed]

moe, you will not be failing your children by filing BK. You will be doing what is necessary to insure a better future for them. They are only going to get more expensive. It is better to get rid of your debt now or over the next 5 years than to have to tell them later that you can't pay for clothes or extracurricular activities because you are still struggling to pay of your credit card debt.

PLEASE make some appointments for free consultations with BK attorneys. You very well may qualify for Chapter 7. If you don't, buying a car may even help you to pass the means test! Attorneys may actually recommend you buy a car. If they don't, tell them you are considering buying a reliable car to replace your 10 year old car and ask how that will effect your filing. If you have to file a Chap 13, the car will be paid as part of your plan and the amount paid to your unsecured creditors will decrease. Then, after you buy the car, stop throwing your money away paying your credit card bills. I bought a car a little over a month before filing. I had stopped paying credit cards, but they weren't yet 30 days late and my credit reports were still good. I easily qualified for a loan. About $300 of my $500 plan payment is going to pay off the car and the maintenance agreement I included in the financing. I know maintenance agreements are not usually cost-effective, but now I wish I had bought a longer one. All the increase in payment did was reduce what is going to unsecured creditors. I'll complete my plan with a 5 year old paid off car.

You are experiencing a lot of fear based on the unknown. Go to some attorneys with a list of your debts and living expenses, the values of your cars and home and any other significant assets, your and your husband's last six months income and what you expect your income to be after your child is born. The information you bring does not have to be exact. That will come after you choose and retain an attorney. You will get professional advice based on your specific situation. Some attorneys will spend more time with you and provide more info than others. So, go on several consultations. Find some time to do this! Take an afternoon off for a prenatal appointment and see an attorney after the appointment. Or, ask attorneys if they will meet you in the evening or on a weekend.

Re your home, you spoke of the equity in your home and rental unit as if they were two separate things. If this is a duplex, the entire property is treated as your home and is subject to the homestead exemption. Read more at http://www.nolo.com/legal-encycloped...exemption.html. As you will see, if you have more than $125,000 in equity, you should record a homestead declaration so that your exemption is increased to $500,000. In fact, regardless of what your equity is, you should probably record the declaration anyway if you haven't already.

Stop worrying about annoying us! We post because we want to help people who are where we have been. We've all survived. So will you!

[LadyInTheRed]

It actually does seem easier though than Chapter 13--to me anyway!!!

Don't resign yourself to a Chap 13 until you've talked to some attorneys. Make darned sure you can't qualify for a Chap 7.

A Chap 13 really isn't that bad. I am 3 years into a 5 year Chap 13 and have much more to spend than I did before I filed. I actually have some savings for the first time in over 20 years! I no longer live paycheck to paycheck. I have an automatic transfer to my savings the day after every paycheck. I also do a manual transfer of whatever was left in my checking account the day before I got paid. That manual transfer is as much as $200 sometimes. Find a good attorney who will work to get you a reasonable plan and a Chap 13 might just give you a little breathing room.

but I have so much work right now, no time to get it all in order.

Maybe it's time to quit that second job!

[momofthree]

Also, about the medical bills: If you are listing them on your taxes each year, that should be proof enough as far as what you're expending annually. The tt most likely will not need itemized bills (except maybe for the braces). You can simply say that there is a chronic condition that you're dealing with, show the taxes, and that's enough. There are privacy laws in place for medical issues. We were open about our son having autism and needing higher medical expenses, but it was listed on our taxes and the tt actually never even questioned it!

[LadyInTheRed]

Also, about the medical bills: If you are listing them on your taxes each year, that should be proof enough as far as what you're expending annually. The tt most likely will not need itemized bills (except maybe for the braces). You can simply say that there is a chronic condition that you're dealing with, show the taxes, and that's enough. There are privacy laws in place for medical issues. We were open about our son having autism and needing higher medical expenses, but it was listed on our taxes and the tt actually never even questioned it!

My attorney said that our medical expenses were high and said I may need to provide documentation. But it never came up.