Wife may need to quit her job.

[cdr777]

Hello everyone.

We're currently 17-months into our chapter 13. All payments are current and everything has been goin well. Our plan is still not confirmed.

A little background on my wife's situation. A year ago she started having trouble meeting performance standards at the employer she's been with for the last 6-years. She went to see her physician. She diagnosed my wife with ADHD and an anxiety disorder. She works at a high pressure call center. Hence the anxiety. She's been having trouble meeting the goals. She's been given ADA status but her employer refuses to accommodate any of her requests. We've spoken with a employment attorney and found there's very limited options. Her performance continues to diminish and they've pretty much told her that she will most likely be terminated in 3-months for performing below standards.

So my conundrum comes to this. The job market is very slim for her particular skill set. She's interviewing but nothing's panning out. Should she resign to avoid having the stigma of being fired in her employment record?

Would a conversion to chapter 7 be an option? How long would we have to wait before we could do a conversion if it is an option? I entered my pay and all our expenses into means test and it indicates that we qualify for chapter 7 just on my pay alone and the number of dependents...

Gonna call the bk lawyer soon and ask him. I wanted to hear your experiences and opinions first.

Thank you!!

[Pjmax]

Any chance DW can stick it out 3 more months and go for unemployment? I would not be concerned about a 'stigma.' Whether she is fired, or leaves on her own, that company will still have the same records. She's been there for 6 years, and now her performance standards are an issue? If I were intervieweing, and given the stress level of a call center job, I think I would give serious consideration to DW's explanation. I don't believe it will necessarily follow her for much time anyway. If this were a high-level management position, it might be a concern.

I say, DW should look after her health and sanity first, whatever decision you make.

Sorry, I'll leave the 7 conversion issue to someone more capable.

[pamkev]

I can't help with the 7 conversion.

I just wanted to say I feel your wife's pain. I've been at my job for 16 years and all of sudden I'm not doing it right, had to shadow someone who just started to see how to do it right. In my case I believe it has to do with the Obama care, let me go hire 2 people for 4 hours each and for less money.

[LadyInTheRed]

I agree with Pjmax about letting the employer terminate her. I also think your wife should consider consulting with another employment attorney. If the employer is not offering reasonable accommodations, they are in violation of the ADA. Maybe it's an issue of documentation? Or maybe it's a disagreement over what is reasonable? Even if it is, a threatened lawsuit may result in a settlement. Maybe the attorney you consulted with is only interested in taking cases that they think will go to litigation and win. Different attorneys might look at the same case in different ways.

I am pretty sure that to convert to a 7, you must pass the means test on the original filing date of your BK. You may have to let your Chap 13 be dismissed. Talk to your attorney right away. Depending on your plan, if the Chap 13 is dismissed before confirmation, you may get part of your payments back. But, that needs to be balanced with the protection you will lose from the time the Chap 13 is dismissed to the time you can qualify for a 7.

[cdr777]

The accommodations she requested, per the lawyer, were denied appropriately. The two requests she made were to take a demotion that would require less complicated work. The second was less time on the phones, which is her job so that didnt pan out. They couldn't accommodate that because there were no positions available. We asked a friend that is an immigration lawyer for The US Attorneys to ask around and find out if that sounded right. The lawyers that work for the US Govt gave an even mor dismal view of the ADA. It's really difficult to pursue even a hostile work environment complaint. It's an employers market right now and the corporation my wife works for is a multi-billion dollar one and ithas the means to make it very difficult to pursue.

My main concerns are reducing our monthly expenses when she does get fired or quits. And if she does have to quit, will we be able to qualify for chapter 7 or a reduction of our monthly payment. Would we have to wait 6 months to file to lower our payment? I just wanna be ready for whatever comes at us.

Thanks everyone for your thoughts!

[bcohen]

In most states, unemployment insurance is available even if you are fired for cause, unless the employer can prove serious negligence, refusal to carry out employment duties, failure to show up at the scheduled time, or criminal activity. Not here in Arizona! Here in Arizona, the employer can claim that you were "fired for cause" and that will cause the unemployment claim to be put into "pending status" for months while you appeal (during which time you don't receive any money, btw). Then when you actually do the appeal, it's done telephonically (so the hearing officer can't see the other party's face/body language) and whatever they say will be taken as gospel truth, thus resulting in the claim being denied, and an ineligibility letter being sent.

How do I know this? I lived through it! From August 1, 2008 to August 9, 2009 I worked for a company at which I was promised health insurance and benefits after a year. When I demanded those benefits after the year, I was told that my performance was bad and I was being "let go" because of it. I filed for unemployment, and the employer made up a number of false (and slanderous) claims including that I was allegedly late for work every day, that I allegedly had unsafe work practices, that I allegedly had several customer complaints, and the most insulting that I allegedly used the Company's account to purchase "personal items" from a supplier, though the listing of items or even the name of this "supplier" were never provided. I appealed the denial, and even had another co-worker testify on my behalf. Much to my amazement, the "hearing officer" believed everything the company said, because the owner had his wife and daughter testify on his behalf, and they raised the fact that my co-worker (who was fired 2 months after me for the same reason) was fired by them, and therefore can't be trusted.

I never got a dime of unemployment, which I was legally and morally entitled to, and I got to the point where I didn't have money to eat or anything, and my parents had to pay my rent so I didn't end up on the street. I had to go to the D.E.S. and file for food stamps and Medicaid (I wanted rent assistance as well, but since I don't have any children, they wouldn't provide that).

Anyways, at that point, I decided a career change was in order, and I decided to go to college and study computer science. The one silver lining to this ordeal was that because I lost a job during the economic collapse, I qualify for a "displaced worker" grant, so with that and my need-based financial aid, it is covering 100% of the cost for me to go to college for 4 years.

[pamkev]

Grrrrrrrrrrr BC how you were treated was so wrong on some many levels.

[cdr777]

Bcohen, your situation sounds terrible. Typical Az politics. I am sorry you went through that!

In our situation, we're just trying to get our financial situation in order for when it does happen. I don't know I that includes a chapter 7 or trying to lower the ch 13 payment - if we even can.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I hope we aren't forced to endure the same...

[woeisme]

I don't think the 6-month lookback applies if you are converting from a 13 to a 7, but every state is so screwy in how they interpret the law it's hard to say. You'd need to pay the BK attorney to look at this, but I think you can do the conversion if you now meet the means test (or will after wife leaves job). It'd be better to let her get fired then quit though, so that there's no question that you were trying to game the system to get below the means test level but rather had it forced upon you.

[bcohen]

It'd be better to let her get fired then quit though, so that there's no question that you were trying to game the system to get below the means test level but rather had it forced upon you.

That's what I was thinking too, because once your wife is "fired for cause", you can reasonably argue that she won't be able to find another job for a while, and thus her income is no longer available to fund a Chapter 13 plan. If the only reason you filed for Chapter 13 was because the Means Test forced you to (as opposed to needing to keep some secured asset, pay back tax arrearages/defaulted student loans without the threat of garnishment, etc) then I suggest you let her be fired, and then file for Chapter 7.

This may be as simple as converting, or you may need to let the Chapter 13 be dismissed and file a new Chapter 7 case, depending on if you would have passed the Means Test on the original filing date and if the trustee is willing to accept the fact that your circumstances have changed, or not. If the trustee is cooperative, then you should be able to convert. If he wants to be a d**k about it, then dismiss the Chapter 13, wait 3 months for your wife's income to fall off the "lookback period", and file a new Chapter 7.

[cdr777]

Bcohen thanks much for your input. I really hate the idea of her getting fired. Not only is the job market crap right now but both a for cause termination and a bankruptcy diminishes her future employment prospects significantly. I also hate seeing her deal with the stress that comes with her job. Ever since she was approved for FMLA for her ADHD they have been not-picking everything she did. They do daily evaluations on everyone and just today she was told that she scored 5/5 (perfect) but criticized her saying that the only reason she did that well was because the customers were easy to deal with. She wants to work and wants to do a good job. But they want everyone to be perfect all the time. Apparently 60% of the 1200 employees at this office are on FMLA for anxiety and depression. They currently have a 28% attrition rate.... 278 people quit last year!

She's interviewing for other jobs and hopefully something will come along.

Our trustee is pretty tough. So not sure how the trustee will handle this situation. One of the biggest points our attorney made to us when this whole process started was besides making all payments on time is not to lose one of our jobs. I'm sure he had experience behind that but didn't elaborate. At the time it wasn't a concern. Now, it is.

Thanks again for chiming in everyone!

I would appreciate hearing from anybody else who's had experience or might have any further input.