What dictates a good Chapter 13 Lawyer?

[paulsk]

Ccmisery: can you please explain with some numbers? I did not quite understand the chapter 7 part

[ccmisery]

Ccmisery: can you please explain with some numbers? I did not quite understand the chapter 7 part

She told me to get an updated appraised value on my property which is nonexempt property, does not draw any revenue, just a piece of vacant land.

I have around $30K in unsecured debt, even at 100% payback my nonexempt property might be greater in value which will push me into a 7 and thus mean I'll lose the property in the process. If the property is worth $100K, then they make out I lose out.

I don't see how I can pay the value of the non-exempt property in order to keep it in a 13. Which looks like my only recourse.

On top of it, she told me to get a new car ASAP, but to keep it under $500. I do not even see how I can make the car payments with my expenses adding up as they are?

[dmc-2008]

I have an idea that I came by accident. If the trustee has a website go look at it and see if there is court info link. Go to that link and see who the judges are . Then go to the judges link and see there calendar. Then click on the docket for the day and scroll thru and you will see a list of the cases, which also lists the lawyers. I notice that there were a couple lawrers that were listed a lot and so really specialize!!!! I went this route to find out info about my own case. A little dtective work! :-)

[LadyInTheRed]

We did a spreadsheet with our income listed, all bills z(credit & House hold listed). Since we had all the details organized our lawyer calculated what he could do for us and sent us home with his plan in writing. We had time to think about it and fill out their paperwork at our leisure. If you go to your consultation organized they can give you a proposed plan in that first meeting.

I emailed a spreadsheet to attorneys before my consultations. All 3 attorneys had an estimate of my plan payment ready when I arrived. The attorney I hired told me that the spreadsheet made his job very easy.

[LadyInTheRed]

She told me to get an updated appraised value on my property which is nonexempt property, does not draw any revenue, just a piece of vacant land.

I have around $30K in unsecured debt, even at 100% payback my nonexempt property might be greater in value which will push me into a 7 and thus mean I'll lose the property in the process. If the property is worth $100K, then they make out I lose out.

So, why don't you sell the property and pay your debt instead of filing BK?

[ccmisery]

So, why don't you sell the property and pay your debt instead of filing BK?

I considered that, but there are some roadblocks.

I own a portion of the land with another party, it's split on the deed so either or can sell if they wish, I can't find a buyer and they won't buy my half unless I give it to them for less than it's worth. On top of it any sale will probably force a petition to partition which is more lawyer costs and fees I cannot afford at this time.

Also the capital gains tax will probably wipe out a lot of the funds anyways.

I do not know if seeking another lawyer at this point will matter since the laws are what they are on nonexempt property, I could delay filing with hopes I can sell it and pay down my debt but with one credit card going to collections in 2 weeks, I have my doubts I can delay it too much longer.

The more I read on it, it looks like if it does go Chapter 7, the Trustee will try to sell the entire piece of land. Thus burning me at the stake in the process.

Read this:

The Trustee’s Power to Sell

"What happens if you jointly own property with someone else and the property is not exempt? In Bankruptcy, the Trustee who is overseeing your case has the authority to force a sale of the entire asset, including the co-owner’s interest; even when the co-owner is not filing bankruptcy. See 11 U.S.C. 363(h).

However, the Trustee does not have the power to act independently and cannot simply sell the property. The Trustee must seek the Bankruptcy Court’s approval by filing a lawsuit in the Bankruptcy Court, known as an “adversary proceeding.” In this adversary proceeding, the co-owner will have the ability to present evidence to the court that the detriment that they will suffer is greater than the benefit to the creditors. Many times, the co-owner will be given the opportunity to purchase the debtor’s interest in the property at a discounted rate. If the property is sold, then the co-owner will be paid back their fraction of the ownership interest in the property after the Trustee’s expenses are paid."

[paulsk]

I went for a consultation today and received the same advice on the car; to buy something less than 500$ which brings to a 18K estimate, and told to stop making payments on a house(income property) and all CC's.

[ccmisery]

She said to me, "would you rather give that $500 to the creditors or put it towards a new car?" Thing is, I do not see $500 being available after I do my monthly expenses. She also said I can't do a till rate on the car to lower the interest rate since you have to own it 2 years+ before filing to get the interest rate adjusted.

If you have good credit, buy a car now because it can save you a lot.

What has me in a situation now is the real estate, I did some rough calculations and it appears the value of my portion will more than what I can payback in 5 years not including any means testing for expenses.

I suppose I could pay the retainer fee which is $500 and see what she proposes for the plan and see where I fall? I will be out of $500 if I don't file. The real estate is a thorn in my side and then I'll be under spotlight even more if what I learned comes true.

This lawyer gave more information out on a free consultation than the others I met with, a few were tight lipped and stuck to teleprompter on words and answers to my questions. They often said, "we will have to figure that out when you decide".

[LadyInTheRed]

ccmisery, if your non-exempt interest in the property is worth $100,000, your plan payment in a 60 month plan will be at least $1,666.67 per month, plus trustee fees, any attorney fees included in the plan and any arrears on secured debt. Can you handle a payment that high? If not, there is no point in paying $500 to find out what your plan payment would be.

How sure are you of the value of the property?

It sounds like if you want to get rid of your debt, you may have to accept losing the property, whether it be by selling it to the co-owner at a reduced price or by filing Chap 7 and having the trustee liquidate it, also probably at a reduced price.

[TheBajan]

CCMisery,

I may be confused so please correct me if I am. I thought you wrote that your debt is about 30K altogether. If that's true, and your equity in the non-exempt land is 100K, it sounds like if you sell it and pay off the 30K that you owe, you can avoid BK, pocket roughly $60k, and move on with your life. If your partner will buy it, even for less than it's worth, perhaps that would still be better than what you will get if a trustee auctions it (maybe even to your partner) for pennies on the dollar.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I'm pretty sure the trustee still has to give you the sale proceeds that exceed the debt you owe. He will also keep his fees, court cost, your lawyer fees, etc.

BTW... is there a sentimental attachment to the land?

[ccmisery]

ccmisery, if your non-exempt interest in the property is worth $100,000, your plan payment in a 60 month plan will be at least $1,666.67 per month, plus trustee fees, any attorney fees included in the plan and any arrears on secured debt. Can you handle a payment that high? If not, there is no point in paying $500 to find out what your plan payment would be.

How sure are you of the value of the property?

It sounds like if you want to get rid of your debt, you may have to accept losing the property, whether it be by selling it to the co-owner at a reduced price or by filing Chap 7 and having the trustee liquidate it, also probably at a reduced price.

No, I can't handle that high a monthly payment. She said "assessed value" of the property you own, I roughly figured on old data $55,000 is what my % is assessed at, even so that is above my unsecured debt total. I need to check with the property appraiser tomorrow and get a updated value. The land is not in my locale, it's in another state a couple of thousand miles away and they do not list records online.

I do not mind giving it up, throws me into a 7, which for good or bad I can't see the negative impact or stigma attached vs a 13, more so the burning at the stake that will proceed from the other owners after the proverbial you know what hit's the fan.

If I offer it to a co-owner at a reduced price and it sells, after taxes, which will leave less than I need to clean my slate and pay off debt, doesn't that still make me liable for fraud if I file? I think so from what I read? I can transfer ownership to someone then wait a year to file, but I do not have that much time as one credit card is going to collections in a few weeks, 6 months is up.

I was told if I pay the retainer fee that it will be valid towards either a 7 or 13, whichever it is. I may have to just accept the fact I have little recourse at this point?

[ccmisery]

CCMisery,

I may be confused so please correct me if I am. I thought you wrote that your debt is about 30K altogether. If that's true, and your equity in the non-exempt land is 100K, it sounds like if you sell it and pay off the 30K that you owe, you can avoid BK, pocket roughly $60k, and move on with your life. If your partner will buy it, even for less than it's worth, perhaps that would still be better than what you will get if a trustee auctions it (maybe even to your partner) for pennies on the dollar.

Please correct me if I'm wrong about this. I'm pretty sure the trustee still has to give you the sale proceeds that exceed the debt you owe. He will also keep his fees, court cost, your lawyer fees, etc.

BTW... is there a sentimental attachment to the land?

Unsecured debt is $30,000 or so yes. The land is owned in full, no liens, no mortgage and no back taxes or other issues. The portion of land I own was assessed a few years ago at around $55,000. Read my post above.

No sentimental attachment, the land is a nuisance and a pain in my side. It's a yearly loss, no profit and a very small tax write off that's not even worth the trouble. It's just the issues, friendships and etc that will be damaged if it goes down the road of being taken over by the trustee and if they pursue court actions to sell off the entire piece of property.

[TheBajan]

I'm not sure how fraud comes in. I do understand you are talking about selling it at a reduced amount to a partner. If it's valued at $55k and you sell it for $40k (that to me is a significant reduction), you still clean up your debts, pay the taxes, and move on. Even if there's a slight amount still owed to your creditors, you should be able to have enough breathing room to take care of it. Also, if you have the cash on hand and your $30k of debt is old enough, you will probably be able to settle it for $20k instead of $30k.

This completely avoids the BK and thus no reason for fraud to enter the picture. If your partner won't buy you out for what amounts to a 35% discount, how good of a friend is he/she??

[LadyInTheRed]

If you don't care about the property, sell it if you can net enough to pay off your debt or file Chap 7 and be done with it. You need to figure out which makes sense financially.

I do not mind giving it up, throws me into a 7, which for good or bad I can't see the negative impact or stigma attached vs a 13,

Stigma??? You file under whichever Chapter is available or makes sense in your situation.

[ccmisery]

Selling is an option, but the capital gains tax will take a a hit on it lowering the amount.

"Stigma" well I was hoping to keep this as private as possible, but if the land has to go that won't be the case.