What dictates a good Chapter 13 Lawyer?

[ccmisery]

I needs some pointers on determining a good Chapter 13 attorney. I met with a few so far and another one is planned this coming week. All have been free consultations, just questions on debts, income and etc. Hard for me to draw any conclusions, most were found on awo.com, reviews and ratings made me choose them.

What do you look for in selecting a lawyer, is there anything that is obvious to avoid?

[lillymarlene]

I chose my attorney because he seemed very honest, knowledgeable and the type of person who would fight for his client if needed. He was also recommended to me by another attorney who claimed this bankruptcy specialist was the best in the area. I don't want to regurgitate some of my older posts, but I tend to try and choose professional people on what I think they can do for me, rather than looking for a buddy.

Then try to avoid cut-rate discount firms, since in this instance you most likely get what you pay for.

[AngelinaCat]

Please get off the Internet and look around at the attorneys within a 60 mile radius of your location. Also, if you have friends that you are comfortable talking with, ask for their opinions.

Next, go to the clerk of the BK Court in your district, and ask for a list of BK attorneys. They are not allowed to make recommendations, but chances are that you will get a list of the attorneys that the clerks prefer to deal with. After all, they deal with these people every day, and KNOW which ones are courteous, prepared, and file clean and correct documents, as opposed to those who are careless, slipshod, always late, and may or may not be rude to the clerks, and not 'professional'. Chances are that if these people treat the BK clerks this way, they will already have treated their clients that way....

[TheBajan]

I have to say I agree whole-heartily with both Lilly and AC. The internet is NOT the place to find your atty. Nor should you make your decision based on how warm and fuzzy he/she makes you feel. You want someone who knows the courts, the people in them, and the BK laws that are specific to your area. You want a professional, not a part-time BK lawyer. AC has some good ideas regarding checking with the courts. We simply looked in the phone book and set up free consultations with atty's until we found the one we knew could and would fight for us.

What I stayed away from...

Large firms that I felt would see us as just a number.

Anyone who didn't return my calls.

Anyone who wasn't interested in hearing the details of our situation.

Anyone who wasn't familiar with the local trustee's and judges.

Anyone that wouldn't talk to us personally but had us vetted by paralegals after the initial interview.

I didn't even know about this forum until after we filed BK. In many ways, I think I got lucky. We had phone consults with several atty's and office consults with several more. None of them gave us any real hope until we reached the last one. A couple of them we really liked (the warm fuzzy feeling). Another one I felt very confident in but she left me feeling like I'd been run over but a freight train. The very last one we set up to see before making a decision was completely different. He actually presented a plan to us that was based on knowledge of our state laws that saved us. He took the time to really listen to our situation. He specialized in BK and was a Ch 7 trustee himself. He displayed compassion without giving us pity or judgement. He returned my phone calls, told us the worst case scenario and then fought to give us the best plan possible.

If we hadn't put him on our list of atty's to consult, we would have chosen one of the others and lost everything. It really was that big of a difference for us. I hope this helps. Quite looking online for this. Sit down with some real people and listen to how well they listen to you.

Best regards,
The Bajan

[andy158]

Get one that is a bk attorney exclusively. Some take on bk cases for extra work and are not familiar with all the details. Our first choice was a bk/consumer protection lawyer and we ended up doing more work than he did. His office was 40 miles from us and we make several trips to his office. We moved on to our present lawyer who specializes in 7 & 13 bk cases only and is only 3 miles from our home. Two visits to his office and we were filed is two weeks.

[paulsk]

If you plan to file with 100% payback, there is not much use for an attorney, go to the courthouse and talk to the court clerk, filing Pro Se might save you some money. That is something i am willing to look at being in the same stage as you are.

[HHM]

I wouldn't necessarily trust AVVO, their ratings are very subjective (even though they say it is a "mathematical model", the underlying criteria is very subjective and easily manipulated), and for attorneys it is pay to play.

Ultimately, it will come down to gut feel. I don't care how you try to evaluate any purchase, ALL buying decisions are made "emotionally", not intellectually (decades of research bares out that fact). So, don't try to over analyze.

I would also caution against making certain assumptions. This is where I diverge from some of TheBajan's comments above. For example, a large firm doesn't necessarily treat you like a number. In fact, the size of the firm can actually lead to more interaction because they have the resources to do it. Also, big is sort of a relative term in the BK context. A "BIG" BK firm is really only about 2-3 lawyer and 6-9 staff.

As for going pro se in 13, don't. Even if you are 100% plan, there are still many pitfalls. Keep in mind, the rule in chap 13 is to devote 100% of your disposable income to the plan. The chapter 13 trustees don't simply roll over if you waltz in with a 100% 60 month plan, they will want to get it down to 100% in as SHORT a time as possible. Also, if you would be in a 100% plan, you CAN afford an attorney, so the incremental savings of not hiring one is of little concern relative to time investment you would need to make to figure everything it, in short, it is simply not cost effective not to hire an attorney.

I think the best approach is to step back from your immediate problem (e.g. overwhelming debt) and understand what you are really purchasing when you hire an attorney. You purchase expertise and "service". Since most people are focused on the problem, they tend to focus on expertise, but in reality, most attorney can handle a BK. So, what you are really buying is service, namely customer service. So, the questions you should really be asking concern how the attorney and his office works. Have the attorney walk you through the process, have the attorney tell you the policies for handling phone calls and emails, talk about timelines. What you are looking for is an attorney with systems in place that make the process predictable and keeps it moving along. However, many consumers assume attorneys work the same way and only find out too late that it is not the case.

For example, every attorney is going to give you some sort of questionnaire and checklist of documents, that is to be expected. What you want to know is "What happens when I drop off my paperwork?" If the attorney responds: "we begin to prepare your case and will call you when its ready". that is actually a POOR response, it is open ended, do they get back to you in 10 days, 20 days, 30 days. The best response, "when you drop off your questionnaire, we schedule a return appointment with you to review your petition and case". Why is that good, it creates a closed loop with no way for your case to fall through the cracks when all the sound of the squeaky wheels gets overwhelming the office.

So, what really differs between attorneys is not their knowledge of the law (except on the margins), but how they practice law.

[dmc-2008]

Pro se? Does that mean without an atty?

[HHM]

Pro se? Does that mean without an atty?

Yes

As in, on your own, no one to help

[paulsk]

HHM, are you an Attorney?

[katztoo]

We used one that did BK only, a large firm. They were great. From the first meeting we got the impression they would fight for us to get the best deal and they did. Every time we called or visited the office the paralegal answered our questions or asked the attorney if she didn't know the answer. We had lots of questions in the five years and we were never charged more than the original amount agreed on. If anyone is looking for an attorney in the upstate SC area inbox me and I'll give you the firms name.

[ccmisery]

Good info thanks for the input everyone. A few lawyers said to bring the following with me, some did not:

1) ID of course
2) Proof of income for the past 6 months.
3) Last 2 months of bank statements.
4) Income tax returns for the past 2 years.
5) Household expenses
6) Statements of debts both secured and unsecured.

Many did not even look over the details and just asked what was the ballpark debt unsecured and secured, I suppose free consultation is what it is. Anyone done the same?

[lillymarlene]

Nobody I met with on the free consults asked me to bring anything. Basically they just asked approximately what my income and debt was and explained what they could do for me. After my decision the attorney I chose, had me bring all that information. I also don't think I was ever asked so many questions from a stranger in my entire life. Then as it was we could not completely get through sorting my "debt mountain" within the hour since I had so many creditors, both personal, business and even a couple of lawsuits. I had to obtain more information, and deliver copies to him a few different times.

[katztoo]

We did a spreadsheet with our income listed, all bills z(credit & House hold listed). Since we had all the details organized our lawyer calculated what he could do for us and sent us home with his plan in writing. We had time to think about it and fill out their paperwork at our leisure. If you go to your consultation organized they can give you a proposed plan in that first meeting.

[ccmisery]

Met with another lawyer today, she said that my real estate asset might push me into a 7, because its worth morethan I can payout in a 13 plan. Not what I expected to hear.