Has your payment ever changed?

[dmc-2008]

I am heading into a 13 for 5 and I am wondering how static the payment is. I also would like to know how hard*ss the trustees can be. Or do you just make your payment and not see them? Thanks!

[HHM]

Once the plan in confirmed, the payment is static. No one really checks up on you during the life of your plan.

The real battle is getting to confirmation. That is when the trustees are hardass, but once confirmed, so long as you make your payment, you are left alone.

The only exception to the above is typically for self employed. Trustees will usually want to see on going reporting of income during the life of the plan.

[katztoo]

Our trustee asked for our tax returns each year to check on our income. When we switched to a health savings plan they upped our payment saving the money going in their is not an acceptable expense. Our payment went up a $114 because she said we had more disposable income cause our health insurance cost went down. This happened in the 4th year.

[dmc-2008]

I am wondering for a few reasons, but mainly because my daughter is 13 and her daycare expense will go away in about a year and half and my lawyer said they could then take that and apply it to the payment. I was hoping to use it as relief and some savings.

[HHM]

When it is known event, the trustees usually catch it during the confirmation process. The more common scenario is when a debtor only has 2 or 3 years left on their car payment and are headed into a 5 year plan.

However, they don't re-audit expenses. At most, as Katztoo points out, they may look for income increases on your tax returns.

In general, once the plan is set, it is set. The trustees are too busy with new cases and dismissing cases where the debtor isn't making payments to then go and start reviewing cases where everything is working. Legally, can they, sure; practically, it is rare.

[dmc-2008]

Well, this is all very encouraging! Thanks!

[Home1]

HHM hit it right on the head. I've been in ch13 for 54m with 6m to go and boy/girl had been left alone.
Getting to confirmation was a pain. I had an adversary.

[dmc-2008]

I think I should start a thread and ask for advice about confirmation, but I think the lawyer has to do most of that work right? What is the hardest part? I feel so stupid. I don't even really know all the steps that I am going to have to go thru.
Here is what I think: Step 1) Gave all paperwork to lawyer and decided what to file, 2) get an appraisal 3) go to a hearing 341, 4) get confirmation, 5) go to court and bring a money order for my first payment. And then I guess I start the payment process for 60 months! How far off am I? I probably just made myself look like complete idiot!

[HHM]

Yes, your lawyer will handle confirmation.

It's not that confirmation is "hard", but it is a negotiation between your attorney and the trustee about your plan payment and it simply takes time. It is the JOB of the trustee to object to your proposed chapter 13 plan. As such, the payment initially created by you and your attorney is rarely the actual number that will get confirmed. Your job is to propose a number as low as reasonably possible, the trustees job is to get a number as high as reasonably possible. As a result, the actual payment ends up being somewhere in between.

Also, during confirmation, additional documents are usually requested. It is a process. Most of the "real" work of a chapter 13 is done as part of confirmation. It is not like chapter 7's in that once you file the case, 90% of the work is done. In chapter 13's, the act of filing the case only represents the half way point.

I am not sure exactly the process for CA, but most chapter 13's proceed as follows.

1. Hire attorney, 2. get required paperwork to attorney (including any needed appraisals) 3 meet with attorney to review and sign of on petition and chapter 13 plan, 4. File Bankruptcy. 5. SEND 1ST PAYMENT to trustee (the first payment must be sent within 30 days of filing BK) 6. Attend trustee meeting (341 meeting). 7. Trustee objects to plan and so begins the confirmation process. 8. Confirmation, 9. You make your monthly payment from here on out.

[LadyInTheRed]

My very liveable plan was confirmed as originally submitted. No objections, no change in plan payment. Be prepared for the payment to be adjusted before the plan is confirmed. But, it doesn't always happen.

[sophieanne]

Hi HHM and Lady In the Red,

Are there usually changes to payments for those who are going to be in a 5 year, 100% payback plan at confirmation? Our confirmation is a couple weeks away and I'm just curious. Every time I feel a little relaxed (nothing is for sure), I read some of the posts here and start to second guess what I think (tough trustees). Our lawyer said not to worry, this is simple (it's a huge monthly payment - we're mainly paying back unsecured credit card debt and financed a vehicle we were leasing) and his comment is you're not truly in bankruptcy, you're in a reorganization plan.

Has anyone here had problems with confirmation of a 100% olan?

Tanks for any comments.

[LadyInTheRed]

Hi HHM and Lady In the Red,

Are there usually changes to payments for those who are going to be in a 5 year, 100% payback plan at confirmation? Our confirmation is a couple weeks away and I'm just curious. Every time I feel a little relaxed (nothing is for sure), I read some of the posts here and start to second guess what I think (tough trustees). Our lawyer said not to worry, this is simple (it's a huge monthly payment - we're mainly paying back unsecured credit card debt and financed a vehicle we were leasing) and his comment is you're not truly in bankruptcy, you're in a reorganization plan.

Has anyone here had problems with confirmation of a 100% olan?

Tanks for any comments.

There does typically seem to be more flexibility in a 100% plan. But, some trustees will still be aggressive in making sure you pay 100% of your DMI into the plan (even though I don't think the BK requires it if you are paying 100% of unsecured claims). This is because they want to get as much money out of you early in the plan in case you don't complete the plan or there is a change in your income requiring modification that pays less than 100%.

If your lawyer says there is nothing to worry about, don't worry. You paid your lawyer for his expertise and to do the worrying for you. He is familiar with the local trustees.

[HHM]

Hi HHM and Lady In the Red,

Are there usually changes to payments for those who are going to be in a 5 year, 100% payback plan at confirmation? Our confirmation is a couple weeks away and I'm just curious. Every time I feel a little relaxed (nothing is for sure), I read some of the posts here and start to second guess what I think (tough trustees). Our lawyer said not to worry, this is simple (it's a huge monthly payment - we're mainly paying back unsecured credit card debt and financed a vehicle we were leasing) and his comment is you're not truly in bankruptcy, you're in a reorganization plan.

Has anyone here had problems with confirmation of a 100% olan?

Tanks for any comments.

The rule that trustees live by, "the debtor must devote ALL disposable income to the plan." So, it is at least possible that if you are in a 100% plan, but you really aren't devoting all disposable income, the trustee may object. For example, if the debtor has proposed $2,000 per month, and that amount would pay all claims and plan expenses 100%, but the debtor really has $3,000 per month, the trustee is likely to object. Now, the trade off being, the plan won't go 60 months.

[sophieanne]

Lady in the Red and HHM,

Thank you both for your quick responses; I really appreciate them. I feel comfortable that the plan/budget worked out with our attorney gives everything we can, so I'll just wait and see what happens on confirmation day.

[Promise]

Our payment went from $1230 to $1290 after 6 months. We are almost at 2 year mark, on a 5 year plan. Our mortgage, which is paid outside the plan, will be paid out in April 2013. Wondering if our BK payment will increase then ?? We are on 100% payback.