Child Support and Chapter 13

[hhwwe2]

Before I jump off the nearest bridge......I would like some possible help/info regarding a situation Im in.
I would like to add that i already understand my bankruptcy will not stop child support.

18 months ago I was discharged from a chapter 7.I rebuilt my scores but had a lapse and my car was repoed.
Due to my employment, this car is necessary. The only realistic option i had to get car back was filing chapter 13 even though it closed all of my accounts.I received the car back and am awaiting my 341 meeting july 20.My payments are 350 biweekly on an net income of @ 2400/month but varies.
I am staying with family and claimed a reasonable 500 in rent so this payment was easily manageable.

Over the course of the last 9 months I was told I wouldnt be a father. This has now changed and I have been notified I am in fact a father of a 1 month old child.I live in MI and have not signed anything or received anything stating Im on the birth certificate.The mother has "requested" help in the amount of 400 biweekly but that wont even scratch what she actually needs or will ask for after that is received.She isnt working and receiving little help.
So the 700/month court payment and her "requested" help of 800/month will barely leave me insurance,gas,food and as i said she will be requesting much more.

I obviously didn't tell my bankruptcy lawyer i had a dependent or possible child support which is on petition but thats because I didnt know at the time.She was already hesitant on taking my case at first anyway but I assured her I could make the payments.
Should I bring this to my lawyers attention at all or just wait til my case is confirmed so it doesnt cause a possible dismissal.

Also how will any real attempt at court ordered child support affect my court payment if at all? I think i have seen that the law allows 65% of my check to be taken TOTAL.
My chapter 13 is a 100% payback 60 month term.
It seems as though it would be in my best interest to proactively seek to pay child support through the court as that will happen eventually anyway due to her unreasonable requests in the future.It would also eliminate any possible retroactive support.Unfortunately, until my bankruptcy is confirmed I have to hold her off before doing that.

Any advice is appreciated.I do wish to take care of my child now that he is here.
However we had an agreement that now WAS not the time as we were not prepared financially.
I was not told the truth and now have to deal with it but hoping to still be able to support myself as well.
We are not staying together,not married and she is completely psychotic.

[AngelinaCat]

Are you sure this child is even yours? You said this woman is 'psychotic'. How do you know she is telling you the truth? She might have several guys she is 'asking for help'.

[justbroke]

Why is your payment $700/month in the Chapter 13? Was this due to the calculation of your "disposable monthly income" (DMI)? If so, then you would adjust this based on child support payments (DSO). I would think that your DSO shouldn't be more than 25% of your gross income or about $600/month unless Michigan is "punitive" with child support (and child support is not for the custodian parent).

There's actually a Michigan website which allows you to calculate an "example" of the support payments (http://www.dadsandmomsofmichigan.org...alculator.aspx). I did it based on $1,900 a month in "net" income AFTER taxes and the payment was only $492/month. That's with the non-custodian parent making $0/month. Remember, in child support cases, EACH parent is responsible for half of the total care for the child. That is why it will ask about the number of nights -- visitation -- that the non-custodial parent has so that the custodial parent "pays" for those days.

You need to talk to your attorney. Hopefully, your bankruptcy attorney has some experience with DSOs (child support) and how they could affect your Chapter 13. I haven't ever heard of 65% of a pay "garnished" for a DSO unless the person was in arrears. You should get your child support setup as soon as possible. Don't play the game of paying the custodial parent cash and not having receipts! They can claim you never paid and if your child support is not set for a couple of years, you could then be in arrears for 24 months. You should also have a paternity test to insure that you are in-fact one of the parents.

Please note that I have never had any children and don't pay child support. However, I have had several friends go through this recently in your area.

[hhwwe2]

Thanks for the replies. It is possible I am not the father but HIGHLY likely I am due to the timeframe.I have little doubts even though she can't open her mouth without lying first.
I thought I saw somewhere that the general cap of wage attacks is 55-60% but could go to 65% TOTAL if another order (garnishment/bankruptcy) is in place at the time.
The 700/month 13 payment is based on my DMI but like i said its a 100% payback plan over 60 months already anyway.
The court payment really cant be lowered because it wont be a 100% payback.
I of course will be forced to take a dna test eventually but am thinking i should be proactive about it AFTER my 13 case gets confirmed just to avoid retroactive support and cash payments that dont count.

The whole thing is awful and just unbearable. The child is the only one who truly suffers here and its a shame I allowed it to happen.Even with appropriate court support the child has no hope with the mother and sadly I don't feel capable either. My only plus is I have a decent stable job.

[hhwwe2]

2400/month is my NET income after taxes
Im pretty sure MI allows 50-60% to be taken, I just dont know how i could deal with my chapter 13 payment of almost 25% taken as well.However, I dont think they could even do that.

[justbroke]

I would not speculate on the amount until I had someone actually calculate it precisely. The calculator I sent you to is the official State of MI calculator and that's the base amount with the minimum "healthcare" amount. They could charge other amounts for daycare and other items, but the "extra" amount, above the base is too dependent on other factors. Even with childcare, your "ex" would need to be working, which would offset other items. Childcare must be regular and proven... not just factored in for the sake of factoring it in.

In two cases that I know of, where one is a female and the other a male (both non-custodian), the amount above the "base" wasn't that significant and not even approaching the same percentage.

I guess I'm just asking you to "not guess" at what your support would be!

[Pandora]

Before you claim this child as yours - get a paternity test. Remember there are tons of cases on the books where men took the woman at face value, started paying support and then later turns out the child wasnt theirs. They were stuck paying child support regardless since they acted in the manner of the parent.

its not fair to any child in this type of situation and you dont want to put a child through a possible "I'm not your father but I thought I was.." years down the line.

Paternity test all the way.

[hhwwe2]

Before you claim this child as yours - get a paternity test. Remember there are tons of cases on the books where men took the woman at face value, started paying support and then later turns out the child wasnt theirs. They were stuck paying child support regardless since they acted in the manner of the parent.

its not fair to any child in this type of situation and you dont want to put a child through a possible "I'm not your father but I thought I was.." years down the line.

Paternity test all the way.

Absolutely, i totally agree. I still havent even been told his actual birthday.I just dont want to force the situation this second as I dont want it to automatically dismiss my 13 bankruptcy case due to lack of funding.
Once its confirmed and as long as Im making the direct payments there shouldnt be a problem.

While I am trying to guess the court ordered amount...I think my actual question is more.......
Is there a limit(percentage) to how much TOTAL child support AND banruptcy payment/garnishment can be taken from a paycheck at the same time?

The bankruptcy really HAS to happen.
Since my chapter 7 was so recent i have no other protection.
I was able to get my car back and only have to pay about 25% of my net income plus it stopped interest on credit cards.

If I hadnt filed bankruptcy i would have lost car and been subject to garnishments including interest.They also would have been able to take 25% of my income (MI).I also would have no warning of when I would be hit.Granted its only good for 90 days but they would be able to take shots at me for YEARS.

[hhwwe2]

I would put up with the garnishments but my car is necessary for work and i have no way to get another.

[SMinGA2]

One thought: if getting behind on the car was the only reason you filed, could you stop paying the ch. 13 payments - save money - and catch the auto loan up once the case dismisses? Then do as you need to regarding your personal finances?

[HHM]

The thing is, you would have changed circumstances, and you would go in and modify your chapter 13 payment to adjust to the child support expense. The only way that would FUBAR the plan would be if you were paying "priority" claims or doing some sort of secured debt cram that required a certain minimum amount to be paid into the plan that would make it so you couldn't both afford the child support or the chapter 13.

Note, I understand that you are in a non-dischargeable chapter 13. However, non-dischargeable, does "not" mean the plan "must" pay 100% (unless you are dealing with true priority claims). Granted, being a non-dischargeable 13 that doesn't pay back 100% is not always a good idea, because you will be left with debt after the 13 is done.

But as to your question...the answer is NO. There is no inherent cap to what the child support and chapter 13, combined can take. Generally, child support payments can garnish up to 50% (sometimes more, depends on state law). That will come out FIRST. Then you have your chapter 13 payment...then you have what is left over. Keep in mind, a chapter 13 is not a true "garnishment", a chapter 13 is voluntary on your part. That is why there is no maximum because YOU have the choice whether to stay in the 13, or modify the payment.

I guess a good starting point would be for you to explain why you are in chapter 13 in the first place, and what is actually getting paid. That might help us better understand the issues and your options.

But as has been pointed out, this seems primarily a family law issue where you will want challenge paternity (maybe), or at the very least, participate in the proceedings that establish child support so they don't assess too much child support.

[hhwwe2]

One thought: if getting behind on the car was the only reason you filed, could you stop paying the ch. 13 payments - save money - and catch the auto loan up once the case dismisses? Then do as you need to regarding your personal finances?

Thanks for the idea but not sure how well that work...
I was only 45 days late when they took it but it's goin on 3 months now PLUS they wanted repo costs. So probably have to come up with close to $2000 and not sure they wouldn't just try to take it after I paid them saying i defaulted on the original contract.
Also NFCU is one of my creditors and will most likely be coming after me hard and getting close to the same 25% of my check that the bankruptcy is costing me.Granted it will be intermittent as the garnishment order is only good for 90 days but thats not all good.Not knowing when youre gonna get whacked.
My lawyer did suggest reviewing the case and my options AFTER my car is paid off in 21 months however.

[hhwwe2]

i could be wrong but they COULD take the car ????????Im assuming????? even if i bring it current because of the default.
That may not be the wise thing to do on their part or something they would consider but Im sure it isnt impossible.

Remember they did take the car at 45 days(local credit union).
They thought it was 70+ days late because I had made 2 payments in the same month but they said that didn't matter because they had already taken it and they could have taken it on day 31.