How miserable are we going to be in Ch13? :(

[SMinGA2]

For the mortgage, if you don't have an auction date: you have time. Months possibly longer to research and plan. If the auction date were set, you'd want to move a little faster. Credit card companies are unlikely to do anything before 4-6 months, and maybe not even that soon. Even from the time a creditor has you served w/ court action - you'd have weeks or even months before a garnishment could happen. And as long as the bankruptcy gets filed before it gets to that point, you stop all actions against you.

My point is that you should not rush into anything before you're ready. When you move forward you should be 110% confident of your attorney & the decisions you have made.

[LadyInTheRed]

I am 2 years into my Chap 13 and am far from miserable. I have more money to live on now than I did before filing. I don't have to turn over my bonuses or tax refunds, but that will depend on your trustee and your plan. Two keys to a successful Chap 13: (1) Stick to a budget and save as much as you can each month and (2) hire a good attorney who will make sure you have a livable plan.

[karm43]

Think it depends on trustee. Ours wants to include our tax return in our monthly income, well what if I do not get back every year same amount. I do not get much kids grown. I would think with 5 kids you have a much bigger budget to work with.

[mslaw]

Think it depends on trustee. Ours wants to include our tax return in our monthly income, well what if I do not get back every year same amount. I do not get much kids grown. I would think with 5 kids you have a much bigger budget to work with.

This is the biggest thing. Our kids are 12, 9, 8, 6 and 2. We will have a ton of variables w/in the next 5 years. A ton. It makes me very apprehensive. Thanks for the reply!

[LadyInTheRed]

Ours wants to include our tax return in our monthly income, well what if I do not get back every year same amount.

I've read of someone in your situation who was able to negotiate a lower plan payment on the condition that all tax refunds be turned over to the trustee. Ask your attorney if that is a possibility.

[karm43]

I already asked awaiting confirmation on plan told him I would rather send the check. We all know the feeling of variables every week something comes up. Its hard, you just have to pic and choose.

[sheilaE]

I'd quit my job asap and file in 6 months. If you're only 2 months behind on your mortgage then you should still have plenty of time in the house. Use the money you would have used for the mortgage to make up the different from your lost income, plus save for your pending move. File chapter 7 six months from now and be done with it. I can't believe with 5 children and the amount of income you have plus all the expenses that will be coming up within the next 5 years that your attorney is trying to put you in a 13...crazy!

[karm43]

I agree!

[keepsmiling]

I work to help us and I miss being with my kids and now I will be working just to repay a Ch13. If I were a stay at home mom, it wouldn't even be an issue.

There ya go. You know the answer to your question.
You won't be "helping" by staying at the job.


If you LOVED your job and did it for self satisfaction, personal growth, or great chance for advancement etc.... that would be different.

Recrunch your numbers a few times before deciding. Maybe speak to another attorney or two. Good luck!

[mslaw]

There ya go. You know the answer to your question.
You won't be "helping" by staying at the job.


If you LOVED your job and did it for self satisfaction, personal growth, or great chance for advancement etc.... that would be different.

Recrunch your numbers a few times before deciding. Maybe speak to another attorney or two. Good luck!

Thanks, we are definitely weighing our options before moving forward with anything.

[katztoo]

We have to give our tax returns to the trustee because we are not in a 100% plan and she sees that as disposable income. DON'T change your withholding just prior to or after filing. They will ask for pay stubs and see that. I adjusted ours so we wouldn't get a refund the second year into our 13 and when we had no refund she asked for 4 months of pay stubs. She then compared them to our original stubs when filing and noticed the difference and raised our monthly payment by about 120 fot the rest of the plan!

[hmsmith]

I'm with the others, I'd strongly consider quitting my part time job and filing in 6 months. You can always go back to work when it's over if you decide to.

[shark66]

I'm with the others, I'd strongly consider quitting my part time job and filing in 6 months. You can always go back to work when it's over if you decide to.

QFT.

Bankruptcy filing - especially when a Ch. 7 is not out of reach by tens of thousands in income - is no more than a numbers game.

You must make the numbers work for you.

If you have to quit, as others have suggested, go for it.

You don't want to be working just to feed the creditors, do you?

Time is actually on your side if you play your cards right.

Good luck to us all.

[walkthaplank]

Since your husbands bonuses are not guaranteed, why are they being used for your forward looking income? I thought the courts had ruled that just because you had a bonus or overtime in the past, there is no reason to assume that it will be there in the future. I thought I read that on this board. Also, quit your job. You won't have to wait 6 months to file because your income looking forward won't include that amount. If the trustee asks why you quit your job, you explain that you did it to stay home with your school age children (a rock solid reason) and that with the expense of childcare, fuel and wear and tear on the car, you end up not making any money from that job and not able to adequately care for your children. It won't be questioned. My wife and I are in a 13 and she quit her job two weeks ago, we are converting to a 7 today. The only regrets I have is that we didn't do the 7 right away. We dragged it out, wasted a lot of money for one goal (strip our 2nd mortgage), but ultimately our goals have changed and with the money I have paid the CH13 trustee over the last couple of years, I could have bought out the 2nd and been done with it, or saved that money for other expenses.

To make a 13 liveable, make sure you include EVERYTHING that you can. Don't skimp on medical/dental/vision expenses, if anybody wears glasses, factor in the retail cost of replacing a pair of glasses per year for each person who wears them. I don't know anybody who doesn't break glasses. If anybody is going to need braces, factor that cost in, get a consult before you file with an estimate of cost. Factor in an entertainment budget. Factor in the most you can for clothes (when you have kids you get a lot of clothes). Max out all of your allowable expenses. We screwed up and didn't do that thinking our payment was going to be a certain number we knew we could live with. The trustee came back and doubled out payment and it was a take it or leave it situation. We were on the spot right then and there because in our district the confirmation hearing is held the afternoon of the 341. While the lawyer likely could have gotten a continuance, it was clearly going to be a fight in a district where the judge rarely rejects trustee objections.

Some other things to think about, when in a 13, making sure your taxes at the end of the year are as close to zero is like trying to hit a jet with a spit wad. Coming up with money to pay any owed taxes really hurts, but the other side of that, making sure there is no money owed at the end of the year could mean paying the trustee a lot of extra money when your refund comes. In our district the entire refund goes to the trustee. Because my income can vary pretty wildly, trying to hit that zero mark on taxes is hard and it hurts either way you miss it. We had to pay $200 bucks one year, so the next year I tried to jiggle the numbers to get that closer to zero and I ended up getting refund over $1000 that I had to send to the trustee.

A 13 doesn't have to be miserable, like HHM says, it is up to you how it goes, but if there isn't a real reason to be in a 13, don't do it. Except for things like back taxes, trying to save assets, stripping a 2nd/3rd mortgage or bringing a first mortgage on the home you plan on keeping current, there isn't much you can't do with a 7 that you can do in a 13. You can also negotiate with your first mortgage a way to bring it current post discharge. In a 13, you are betting that you aren't going to inherit anything from a relative, that you aren't going to have any windfall, that you aren't going to get any tax refunds over the next 5 years, that you aren't going to have any unexpected expenses or life changes. This is a big bet. You are submitting to sending a trustee your tax returns every year along with any tax refunds. You are essentially under the thumb of the trustee.

Take a long hard look at your plans for the future and go from there. Remember, life rarely follows that plan. Good luck with whatever you end up doing!