2 1/2 years and still not confirmed

[keepsmiling]

The baby thing WILL be cleared up. I can't imagine that it wouldn't. Must be some misunderstanding somewhere? That's just nuts and makes ZERO sense to anyone. You can't just deny the existence of another member of the household. May I ask.... how many are in the family? Because the only other thing I can guess is that there are more than are accounted for on a chart somewhere (shades of Olivies' large family vis a vis housing allowances).

Hang in there and keep us posted.
Oh and I realize I got the two posters confused. Should have to bed at a reasonable time lol.

[Redsox]

Just Three of us in our household. Me, My wife and our son. I wish we could get a deduction for pets, especially dogs. Just a wellness check for a dog is 1 or 2 hundred and then food for our dogs is at least 100 a month. I think whomever constructed the BK Law in 2005 didnt really think of all the expences a middle class american has. He was more worried about getting his payoff from the Credit Card Co.

[keepsmiling]

He was more worried about getting his payoff from the Credit Card Co.

You'd better believe it. Who do you think was behind the "reform"....

[Pandora]

2.5 years and still not confirmed?! I'd have had my lawyer in the corner asking WTH is up and what is the reason he/she cannot get the trustee to agree to payments. As HHM stated - this should've been to the judge waayyyy before this point.

Des should know how things work given he's in AZ...

[Redsox]

So to update our Horror Show Chapter 13...Our attorney filed the amended DMI and payments yesterday and now we are waiting for the Trustee to accept it or object. If she objects how do we schedule a hearing with the Judge? What will happen at the hearing? Any help is appreciated.

[despritfreya]

I apologize. This is the first I have seen of this thread.

The Non-consumer Bankruptcy wasn't available to us because. . . The credit cards I used for my business were under my name and not the business. .

This is a mistake. To determine if the debt is consumer or non-consumer you look at what it was incurred for. Using a personal cc for your business means, to the extent so used, that amount goes on the non-consumer side of the scale. This is not a problem so long as you can document that the charges were for the business.

We signed personal guarantees on an SBA loan, Lease, and our Suppliers, but not one of them came after us.

I hope you listed these debts. It does not matter if the creditor went after you. It matters that the creditor has a right to go after you. Unless your creditor released you from the debt, these obligations must be listed and are non-consumer.

Now, adding the cc and the personal guarantees are you a “non-consumer” case? If “yes” go back to your attny, amend the Petition to show that debts are mostly business. Once you have done this, and do not have any assets that you might lose (if you care about them) if you want to convert then convert.


Now, as to your Trustee, she is a problem. Your real time numbers (Schedule I&J) are what matters in determining how much you pay to your creditors, not that stupid Form 22C. Your Trustee will require 22C to be correctly done and that covers the 6 months prior to filing. It would not include the new baby. However, I&J DOES cover your current/anticipated income and necessary expenses. If you are wage earners determining your income is easy. Your expenses need to be within reason. If this current go-around does not work take it to the Judge. I can tell you that I recently had an issue with your Trustee, set a hearing and made her look like a fool. The Judge (same one you have) told me to upload the Order Confirming without her signature.

Des.

[flowerchild]

So... what happens to all the money paid before you are confirmed? I think you Michiganders need to rise up and revolt on this. It's a bizarre interpretation of the code, no?

Yep I one of those Michiganders who filed in 3/2007 and wasn't confirmed until 8/2007. So when I complete my case it will be 65 months in total that I pay. I think it just sucks. I beginning to think that they just do a stall tactic just to get more money. And technically I think they can push you out 6 months more than the 60 months if they want to. If they did that then I will be 71 months.

[keepsmiling]

Surely there is some gutsy enterprising attorney/reporter/muckraker who wants to take that on. It's just WRONG. Like the Washington carveouts, the Fl middle district nonsense, and the non-existent NJ exemptions. (yes, I know, we can use Federal, but even so....makes you scratch your head)
Might be fun/interesting to make a list of each state's peccadilloes.

[Redsox]

despritfreya: Thank you for your input. So, what I can gleen from your last paragraph is that the Judge will look more at the Schedule I and J? So when the Judge told you to upload the Order Confiriming without her signature, does that mean he (Judge) would sign the order without the Trustee's Signature? This is so frustrating...2 and 1/2 years and still going back and forth with the trustee. I am not sure what kind of Metrics she is using.

[despritfreya]

So when the Judge told you to upload the Order Confiriming without her signature, does that mean he (Judge) would sign the order without the Trustee's Signature?

In this particular case, yes. Trustee refused to sign the Order for a stupid reason. She demanded a court hearing so I gave her one. Judge backed my firm to the hilt. But, normally the Trustee does sign the Order before it is submitted to the Judge.

And, yes, it is the real budget that matters. We do not look at 22C if it is not representative of the real situation. This all goes to the USSC decision of Lanning which your attorney should be familiar with. (Lanning dealt with income, not expenses, but its reasoning can be applied to the expense side of the equation.)

Des.

[Redsox]

Just wanted to update everyone on my situation. We are finally Confirmed as of 9/11/12 after 2 plus years!! Our payments jumped to 1600/mo from 1250 but we just have to deal with it. We are now dealing with purchasing a car, as our lease is now up. My attorney has just filed a motion to incur debt. Does anyone have experience with filing this motion in AZ with Trustee DK? Is it going to be another horror show, like our confirmation? I hope it isn't.

[despritfreya]

Does anyone have experience with filing this motion in AZ with Trustee DK? Is it going to be another horror show, like our confirmation? I hope it isn't.

If your new car payment is about the same as the lease that has ended there should be no problem. But. . . since you are in the Tucson area the general consensus between debtor's counsel would probably be, yes, it could be another "horror show". Hopefully the consensus would be wrong.

How did you, your attny and the Trustee come up with the Plan payment? Did she demand payment of "disposable income" as shown in form 22C or did she look at your "real" income and reasonable expenses? Just curious.

Des.

[Redsox]

As I am sure you are aware, DK does everything by the book. She would not budge on anything! Our DMI is based on form 22C. I presented my attorney with the Supreme Courts decision that Chapter 13's should be a forward looking process, and dynamic. My attorney seemed indifferent about it. So, we will see if the Motion to incur debt will be as difficult as Confirmation. We are returning a BMW with a 531/mo lease and buying a 2 y/o Minivan in which the payment will be substantially less. Unless the rate is 25%

[flowerchild]

Just wanted to update everyone on my situation. We are finally Confirmed as of 9/11/12 after 2 plus years!! Our payments jumped to 1600/mo from 1250 but we just have to deal with it. We are now dealing with purchasing a car, as our lease is now up. My attorney has just filed a motion to incur debt. Does anyone have experience with filing this motion in AZ with Trustee DK? Is it going to be another horror show, like our confirmation? I hope it isn't.

Whew!! Now that was a long time. Congrats!

Now how long is your plan for? And what happened to all of the monies you've paid for the past 2 years? Since you are not a Michigander, surely those monies and the time has to be accounted for in your confirmed plan, right?

[Redsox]

Flowerchild: all the money we have paid has been held in escrow in essence. Our plan is for 5 years. And yes thank god we dont live in Michigan. The money we paid has been sitting in the trustees account.