CH. 13 TT's Recommendations for our Plan Confirmation

[alorth]

Our original Plan has us paying @ $550/month for 60 months. The 13 TT finally let us know that he is expecting to ask for @ $1050/month x 60 plus all tax refunds from tax yrs. 2012 - 2016, which could be $5,000-6,000 per year, so that could net another $25,000-$30,000 into the Plan. He would recommend confirmation under those parameters.

He objected to a few things in our Schedule J. He did say that our house payment was too high, and with the accompanying maintenance and household costs, he figured the monthly COSTS at @ $3,300, though the actual Mortgage with taxes and insurance is only $2410! He is counting utilities and other costs, but none of those are over IRS standards.

He also objected to our phone expenses. We put like $210/month in "J", and he wants it at $100/month. That includes cell phones, house phone, and internet. We put our actual costs, so I'm not sure what we can do to limit that.

He objected to our DirecTV of $105/month. We do NOT have cable available at our house. We do not get over the air reception. We do NOT pay for premium channels like HBO. We do have HD and a DVR, but that's it. Seems he is being unreasonable about this, especially considering that we basically cut off from other forms of entertainment and become "homebodies" during the course of the 13.

And he objected to the private school monthly amount, which he cited should be no more than $147/month. We had a tuition listed at about $450/month.

Thing is, there are a couple of things I have found that we could ADD to "J" that weren't on there....the most important being our Charitable donations, which are at $40-50/month, and we should be able to cite childcare separate from the school tuition at about $100/month.

Our DMI, both on the CH 13 Means Test, AND on the Difference between "I" and "J" were about the same, at $550/month.

$1050/month is going to be very tight, and will significantly change our lives, especially when it comes to my daughter's education. I've already stated elsewhere the other "belt tightening" we've done as a family.

Really, this seems like a recipe for failure to me, as we don't have a large exempt savings cushion built up for emergencies and or repairs that are likely to come up.

I will be interested to see if the Judge has any commentary on our case, or asks for perhaps EVEN MORE!!

Especially if he also makes a more significant noise about the House, as he is known to do sometimes.

BTW....if we become renters, the tax returns dry right up as our deductible house payment interest goes away. But maybe they think that they'd make up the difference by getting more DMI out of us monthly. Yet, we may end up having to move multiple times during our Plan if we were to become renters, and that costs money every time. What a seemingly warped system.

[keepsmiling]

Sounds like progress- at least he's letting you stay in the house. Perhaps your lawyer can negotiate a bit more on the other items.
OTOH, at two times the median income, a 550$ monthly payment may have been overly optimistic. Any idea what your percentage comes out to with the tax refunds?
As to TV, you can watch almost anything online nowadays. Maybe get Netflix.
How did you make out with the medical portion? I know that was an issue too.

[alorth]

Sounds like progress- at least he's letting you stay in the house. Perhaps your lawyer can negotiate a bit more on the other items.
OTOH, at two times the median income, a 550$ monthly payment may have been overly optimistic. Any idea what your percentage comes out to with the tax refunds?
As to TV, you can watch almost anything online nowadays. Maybe get Netflix.
How did you make out with the medical portion? I know that was an issue too.

In a way, I guess it is progress. At least I have a number from them. Better than not having anything and just wondering what they would say.

Its a start.

Still, the Judge is activist in these cases. He won't necessarily just take the TT's recommendation as gospel. We might be able to make things work at the TT's number of $1050 x 60. If we stay here, and pay all the payments, plus give him the tax returns, we would probably be looking at about 45% payback to the unsecureds.

IF we are forced out of this house, and the house if foreclosed on, and there is a significant deficiency that gets tacked on to our unsecured total, the percentage payback to the unsecureds may actually go down, even though we might be paying more into the plan monthly. Depends on how much of a deficiency there might be....25, 50, 75 thousand? Who knows? And no big tax returns at the end of the year if we become renters.

Hopefully, nobody rocks the boat any further.

Maybe we can just work out a plan based on these recs from the TT, and the Judge will accept, and we can get on with our lives. I will hopefully know this time next week if that will be the case. I just want to start making some progress towards the end of this thing.

[alorth]

Sorry I didn't answer your last 2 points, ks.

As for TV.....I mean really.....what do they expect? It becomes the primary form of entertainment for the family, and is relatively cheap in the scheme of things! Its what we do around here at night....watch sports (which Netflix can't help with), or catch the shows we like. We don't go out. So there really ought to be some leeway here when cable isn't even available at your address....and trust me, I've looked into it several times in the last 10 years with the reception issues we get with DirecTV anytime a thunderstorm rolls in, or when the Dish gets covered with wet, slushy snow that isn't easily cleared since its on the roof of my 2 story house. I'm not against reading a book, but it is 2012.

They can't argue any of the health costs against us, and haven't been doing so. Looks like they may even allow me to take that loan off our 401k next year after the 2 current 401k loans are paid back so I can have surgery. The TT said he won't argue with it being my Doc says its medically necessary. But will the Judge make a point of it is the question? The Judge may essentially say "screw that" and demand a step when the current 401k loans are paid off in a year, which would be about another $400/month into the Plan.

Again, I should hopefully know more about these "unknowns" with the Judge this time next week, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

I'm just praying he'll go by those TT recs, and that we can work out a livable Plan under those parameters and get on with this.

[keepsmiling]

VERY good news about the medical stuff!
I find a phone call to Comcast's retention dept every few months knocks a decent amount off my cable bill. Might be worth a try.
Hang in there, it's almost done.

[Pandora]

man... both your trustee and the judge sound like the biggest a-holes going... If you have legal representation, your lawyer needs to grow a pair.

Fingers crossed everything works out in your favor.

[magic13]

I thought you wrote earlier that you were paying two car loans totaling $484 which you were paying outside the plan and now they are in the plan. If that is the case, you are still paying around $550 plus the cars into the plan. Also he seems to be having a problem with your total home home expenses , in his mind it is very high as you stated earlier. But isn't cable and cell phones included in household expenses? It appears to me he is just trying to reduce that $3300 to a more reasonable number for your area.

[alorth]

I thought you wrote earlier that you were paying two car loans totaling $484 which you were paying outside the plan and now they are in the plan. If that is the case, you are still paying around $550 plus the cars into the plan.

That is correct magic. That's why I think we can swing the TT's recs. I'm just hoping the Judge doesn't make it any harder on us than that. The reason the cars ended up being put in the Plan was to lower the interest rates and spread the Payments over the 60 months, which lowered the monthly output on the cars, and allows more to go to the unsecureds.

Keep in mind though that we originally did file as a 7 (at the advice of our atty.) because we figured the DMI to be very very low on the 1st Means Test (and our atty. made a mistake in understanding a certain component of that test in relation to low percentage payback). They are making us squeeze some more out of our actual expenditure list, and I guess I understand that.