I notice that a lot of people on here are really down on filing chapter 13

[magic13]

Is this merely the ones who could or wanted to file chapter 7. My lawyer states that he has 100 clients currently in a plan and most are content. The ones who are not are just upset that they have to pay someone for such a long time (60 months). I asked a couple who was waiting in his office and they laughed and stated does it look like we are starving.If you are already resigned to the fact that your credit is toast for a while and you have already gotten use to no credit cards (whats the big deal about credit cards anyway) What makes a person starve on a chapter 13? I saw one person on here complaining all the time, then he turned around and started using budgeting software and now he saves 500 a month. When I hear such negativity, it makes it really hard on an individual who should be filing a chapter 13 to correct their past bad deeds and begin work on their future before it is too late. IS IT REALLY THAT BAD. He also stated that the vast majority of Chapter 13 filers are living their normal everyday lives wih friends and family budgeting when needed and not obsessed about blow by blow details, if you are obsessing yes it will be horrible. He stated if you are not busy enough, plant a garden, go for a walk, become a Red Cross volunteer

[tobee43]

there have been numerous success stories about completions of chapter 13's on this site. many people seem to be scared because of monthly payments and if their situation may change etc. but anything can be fixed or a 13 can convert into a 7 if need be at a later date.

hopefully some of the success stories and there are many will add to your thread and tell you that it works well for many!

[toojerm]

The painful part is the things you can't get done that would improve your situation, and help ensure the success of the plan. I'm in a 100% plan, so there is some freedom in that(they can't come for more!) But I've tried twice to refi my home and couldn't due to the expiration of the ratelock because of the turnaround time b/w the lawyer and trustee. Then I took a job and moved from WA to IA, with my new company offering to pay closing costs on the sale of my home, which can't sell because buyers won't wait for the trustee and court to approve the sale even though I'm losing money on the deal. So I finally rented it out for a loss each month. 15 months to go in a 60 month plan, and I'll be so glad when this is over. Finally, the trustee fees seem to change on a whim. I've paid over $5000 thus far, and it will be over $7Gs when finished. I often feel I would have been better off negotiating the total debt amount and paying them all to go away. Also, if you KNOW you will be in a 100% plan, file on your own, because the lawyer does nothing for you either at or following confirmation.

[magic13]

So why would they come for more, is it because your income increased. Is this also why the trustee fee increased too. Is it difficult paying the trustee? Do you save money? Are you better off than before you filed

[LadyInTheRed]

magic13, your attorney has given you good advice.

I am approaching my 2nd anniversary of filing a Chap 13 and am doing very well. It's not always easy not having credit to rely on when unexpected expenses arise, but life isn't always easy. I am glad that I have broken the habit of relying on credit! I pay about $500 less per month in plan payments than I did in credit card payments and 2nd mortgage payments that the plan payment replaced. And the minimum cc payments were about to increase significantly. My plan payment includes the payment on the car I bought less than a month before I filed. Things are much better for me than before filing and I am very happy to have my fuel efficient car right now while the 13 year old pick up truck sits in the garage.

People have trouble in a Chap 13 for the following reasons: 1) They are unwilling to do what is necessary to change their habits and live within a budget; 2) They qualified for a 7, but filed a 13 to keep assets they cannot really afford, which is really the same problem as #1; 3) They have priority debt, usually tax debt, that made their plan payment impossibly high (an IRS payment plan or offer in compromise may be a better option in this situation); 4) They have a lousy attorney that didn't work to get them into a reasonable plan; or 5) They have a permanent change in income or increase in expenses that make the original plan unrealistic in which case the plan should be modified or the case converted to Chap 7.

I am sure I have missed something, but these tend to be the most common reasons people have problems.

Remember that we probably tend to read more on this board from people who are having problems because they are the people who are seeking help. Yes, if you qualify for a 7 that should be preferred over a 36 to 60 month Chap 13. But, for people with regular income who can afford to pay a portion of their debts, a Chap 13 can be an excellent option for a needed fresh start. It just takes a longer to get there.

[LadyInTheRed]

Finally, the trustee fees seem to change on a whim.

That is probably because trustees are limited on how much they can earn each year. So, when they see they are approaching the max or not approaching the max, they'll adjust the rate. At least, that's my understanding from what somebody posted here awhile back.

[magic13]

Thanks Lady, I really needed your experience, it gives hope. Most people that I have talked to personally haven't heard from their trustee since the confirmation.Matter of fact, they are the ones badgering the trustee about what they want to do.(Keep taxes,get rid of their house, car etc) I refuse to believe there are trustees sitting around looking to screw people they don't even know that are trying to get a fresh start

[LadyInTheRed]

So why would they come for more, is it because your income increased.

Yes, that is why a trustee would try to increase a plan payment. But, an income increase doesn't always equal a plan payment increase. I have received two small raises since filing without any increase in my payment. My attorney said the trustee doesn't care. Others have reported their trustee wanting any income increase, no matter how small. Your attorney can tell you what your trustee's practice is.

I was just re-reading your original post and wanted to comment on a couple things.

I asked a couple who was waiting in his office and they laughed and stated does it look like we are starving.

LOL. My husband and I eat very well. Good food has always been a priority for us and a large part of our budget still is food. But, it's home cooked food and we don't spend money going out much. That $50 in entertainment on Schedule J tends to go to food.

When I hear such negativity, it makes it really hard on an individual who should be filing a chapter 13 to correct their past bad deeds and begin work on their future before it is too late. IS IT REALLY THAT BAD.

My signature is an attempt to encourage new members like you. Don't let other people's negativity get to you. Their problems do not have to become yours. For them it may be THAT BAD. Every case is different. It sounds like you have a good attorney. Make sure you understand your petition and how your plan payment is calculated. If something doesn't look right or the payment is higher than you think it should be, discuss your concerns with your attorney. If problems come up during your plan, call your attorney for guidance.

Chapter 13 filers are living their normal everyday lives wih friends and family budgeting when needed

If it weren't for this board, I would think of my BK once a month when I have to go to the post office for a money order to send to the trustee. In fact, this board sometimes reminds me to go do that, if the thought of treating myself to my favorite deli sandwich at the place next to the post office doesn't remind me.

ETA:

Thanks Lady, I really needed your experience, it gives hope.

I'm glad I can help.

I refuse to believe there are trustees sitting around looking to screw people they don't even know that are trying to get a fresh start

Me too. Their job is to get the creditors what they are entitled to under the law. Some are more aggressive in doing that than others. But I believe they do it because they want to do their job well. I am sure many are also motivated by the fact that they get a percentage of what they distribute. But, I don't believe they are out there trying to stick it to the honest debtor.

[spidge]

I am down on a 13, but it gets me to where I want to be. I took the time to ask questions here and other places to better understand and clear up my expectations. I now have a tough plan, but I still live better now than I have in the past 5 or 6 years.
Now if my job just stays in tact, I'll be golden.

What drove me to BK is the drive to work to live rather than work to work. No motivation that way.

Also, my trustee sends out a statement twice a year and of course he reminds me to send him my taxes. Startles me a bit every time.

[magic13]

Spidge, I saw that you wrote earlier that you sat down with your family and you showed them that you all could save $10,000 a year. Wow, if I could do that I would be elated, so why are you so down

[TheBajan]

Magic and Lady...
Thank you both for your perspectives! Lady, a special thanks for your sig. I want you to know that it has been an inspiration to me every time I read it. I want to add my own thoughts to this. My own experience before BK has been like living in a growing storm for the past 4 or 5 years. At first just a drop in overtime, then some investments went south, then renters trashed the house and cost us a small fortune in repairs, then we both lost our jobs [auto industry], then things really spiraled out of control and you know the rest. Constant worry... constant stress... both my husband and I trying to deal with the emotions of different levels of denial and shame. THAT WAS HELL!
Filing was a breeze compared to that. We are just at the beginning as you can see in my sig. However, I have been in an almost euphoric state since we were confirmed on Thursday! I already feel like I have my life back! The small payment I have to make to the trustee every month is still $3000 (yes... you read that right) less than my CC minimums before I filed! So I say... Woohoo! BK 13... yes! Wish I hadn't waited so long.

Cheers,
The Bajan

[spidge]

Spidge, I saw that you wrote earlier that you sat down with your family and you showed them that you all could save $10,000 a year. Wow, if I could do that I would be elated, so why are you so down

If I had the trustee payment every month at my disposal I could be in that much better shape. The payment of course is also averaged over the entire year and my wife does not get paid for two months in the summer. So it is that much more rough during that period. We will be OK though and better for it.
The $10,000 for the year was to show the family what we could accomplish as a group being mindful of our situation. We are starting to like having money rather than things, but its still tough in that we all spend cash a little freely here and there. I think knowing the possibility of $10,000 made us let our guard down, but we are back on track again with no major issues.
My trustee payment in my pocket in two years time would get me a stellar new roof, and another year of payments would get new plumbing. With the last two years of payments I could buy a decent used truck with cash or a sizable down payment toward a newer one. That is how my wife and I are looking at it for the future, but like many others we want it now.
So not to down, just in a waiting game.

[Flamingo]

Is this merely the ones who could or wanted to file chapter 7. My lawyer states that he has 100 clients currently in a plan and most are content. The ones who are not are just upset that they have to pay someone for such a long time (60 months). I asked a couple who was waiting in his office and they laughed and stated does it look like we are starving.If you are already resigned to the fact that your credit is toast for a while and you have already gotten use to no credit cards (whats the big deal about credit cards anyway) What makes a person starve on a chapter 13? I saw one person on here complaining all the time, then he turned around and started using budgeting software and now he saves 500 a month. When I hear such negativity, it makes it really hard on an individual who should be filing a chapter 13 to correct their past bad deeds and begin work on their future before it is too late. IS IT REALLY THAT BAD. He also stated that the vast majority of Chapter 13 filers are living their normal everyday lives wih friends and family budgeting when needed and not obsessed about blow by blow details, if you are obsessing yes it will be horrible. He stated if you are not busy enough, plant a garden, go for a walk, become a Red Cross volunteer

Chapter 13 is not that bad. The reason most people have a hard time is that they just have a hard time changing their lifestyle and former spending habits; many have just never really learned how to budget. The best thing one learns after going through a Chapter 13 is to how to control one's money and not let it control you and also Chapter 13 is the best budget teacher in the world - the lessons will remain the rest of one's life as most people eventually find out.

[BNKRPTinNC]

When we filed we had a few hundred in our checking acct., $100 in cash in our pockets and nothing in savings. We had hit bottom, HARD. Hadn't paid the car note in months and mortgage company was in the process of foreclosure. Vehicles were 2003, 1998, 1994 models with mileage of 50k on average for each.

Fast forward to 3 1/2 years in. We now have a substantial savings account (for us anyway) and there is even some left in checking after the bills are paid. Have been fortunate that the cars have been dependable other than tires, so far. I perform routine/preventive maintenance diligently. Had money for the inevitable emergency that will arise and we were able to retire last year as well. It all has to with budget. Now we haven't had a vacation since the start, we eat out rarely, we don't have cable and such, basic phone/internet service and still it has not been too bad. There were two Xmas' that the money was just not there but were able to more than make it up as time went on. For the first 2 years I pinched every penny and accounted for every dollar spent and found that I could actually save every month, a lot. In fact, we have been so mindful of our spending habits that, since retirement, we are making about $10k less but are still managing to save each and every month. Ours may not be the typical 13 but, for us, it has been a financial lifesaver and has taught us about being responsible when it comes to how we spend and what we spend it on. Am looking forward to the end as once it is all said and done there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and it's BRIGHT.

[kornellred]

Everyone is down on Chapter 13 since the 2005 BAPCPA. It is the default Chapter for personal bankruptcy, inasmuch as you will not be permitted to file under Chapter 7 unless you qualify for it.
If you need to file for bankruptcy and you do not qualify for Chapter 7, you will find that it is not that difficult to tolerate the financial restraints if you realize that a lot of the things you want are not necessary at all. That can be a hard lesson, but it can be learned.