Assets for Kids 18 and over

[salsa]

Just wondering how this would be handled...

Horse #1 purchased in 2009, registration papers are in my daughters name.
Horse #2 traded for in late 2010(couldn't sell), registration papers are in my daughters name.

If we file a 13 after she turns 18... Do I need to consider those under my assets or not?

[lrprn]

A couple of questions first.....

Did you pay cash for one or both horses or did you take out a loan for one or both?

If you took out a loan, who's name is on the loan?

What is each horse's current market value?

[salsa]

1. No loan taken out to purchase horses.

2. Market value very hard to judge as the horse market is horrible along with the rest of the economy. One horse 7500.00 second horse $30,000.00.

[despritfreya]

Salsa, your earlier thread indicated you were getting an appraisal on the horse(s). Did you?

If they do have a total value of $37,500.00 and YOU paid for them but put their papers in your daughter's name, you either are the "equitable" owner or you have a transfer to the daughter that must be accounted for in the Chapter 13. If there is no exemption that would cover the value of the horses (you are the true owner), then you need to pay the value to the creditors over the life of the Plan. I do not recommend playing "games" with this. While a 13 Trustee is less likely to question the issue of value and ownership, if he/she does and your Schedules are not accurate, the consequences of such are much greater than dealing with a $37,500.00 value.

Your other alternative, and something you said you were going to do - hence the reason for the appraisal - is to sell the horses since you cannot afford them, live off the money and then file, or, depending upon what you owe, settle with the creditors to avoid a bk.

Des.

[salsa]

I have scheduled an appraisal for the one horse we are going to sell in early November(not an easy task to get appraised).

Not trying to play games, just wondering. The horse we are keeping, interestingly the attorney I will likely file with said because it was in her name... Wouldn't come into play. I on the other hand being a pessimist, am going to account for the value and cover under my exemptions anyway...

I'm about 99% sure I'm not going to try and settle. I've been beaten down and I've had enough.

So hope to have the horse for sale in November, who knows how that will go. The market is terrible. Every month I keep him, another $900.00. I will start the asking price at the appraisal amount, document where I advertised and if we get any bites. Lower the price as we go if needed. Next step then is to spend cash down or put some in ERISA account. Then buy 2 vehicles, wait 91 days and file. Still a long road ahead before we get there.....

[despritfreya]

Was not implying you were trying to play a game. That is why I quoted the word. The issue I have with the advice given: You are the true owner of the horse in the sense that (whichever of this list applies)

1. You paid the purchase price
2. You paid for the training
3. You paid all entry fees
4. You paid all trailering fees to shows
5. You paid all vet bills
6. You paid all farrier bills
7. You paid all board bills

To me, the fact that the registration papers are in your daughter's name is not relevant. All of the costs associated with the horse came from your pocket. This makes you the equitable owner. Just my spin on it and this spin does not include any and all tack and equipment you may have also purchased along the way.

While you may already know this. . .

If these horses are Warmbloods, a good marketing tool (other than the local ones) is:

http://www.warmbloods-for-sale.com

Also look on the breed specific web sites.

Keep us posted.

Des.

[salsa]

My daughter actually paid for a portion of it. She works at the barn each month, and rather then get paid directly, I get money off my bill. Which thankfully moving forward will allow her to pay for the one horse we are keeping each month as she will need to cover most of it.

I will keep you posted...