Ghost of the 13....

[Hos75]

Ya all know what? I finally paid off my 13. yeah, how bout that! May was my last payment to send in for the dastardly thing yet the lingering effects of its existence is haunting me today. I called my attorney who was supposed to file for the remaining charges in the middle of last month (or so the trustees office told me), but never did. After a brief conversation I was assured it would be taken care of last week, or the beginning of this week at the latest. Well, that hasn't happened so I'm still working with him to get that taken care of. The trustees office was so kind to let me know it'd be atleast 60 days after he filed the motion for additional fees before the case would be discharged. ......................... 60 days? Hasn't this gone on long enough? You newbies look through my past posts to find out how this has affected my life. But I'll let you all in on a bit of a secret about this fine piece of legislation the government shoved down our throats.

For another 60 days I'm unable to seek any credit. I'm stuck again. For the past several months I have had to put off paying my house payment to pay for things most normal people would have used credit for. This includes an $800 bill for my vehicles transmission (oops, another house payment behind... this was #3 I believe). But in a Ch13, you have to play by the rules... no credit, remember? Kiss the a** of the trustee and hope and pray you'll be discharged. Well, now I'm out of the stupid 13, only to be 4 months behind in my house payments. I'm more in debt now than before. But this is trivial. I came home a few days ago to find a 60 ft locust tree in my back yard eaten up with carpenter ants. This was on the 1st, the normal time I made my house payment. But with the wind blowing and the tree pulling up the ground around it in the wind, I HAD to take the tree down immediately or risk the thing blowing over taking out my shed. $800 later and the tree is gone, and so is another house payment. I have to say, I'm at a loss here.....

I'm so frustrated by all this. It has caused so much stress in my life that it has affected my relationship, my job (career), my physical health, not to mention I'm now on medication and testosterone shots to replenish what the stress has taken away from me. I'm on Xanax for constant chest pain as well as other meds for tension.

I came home this morning to find my dogs decided to do a number on the carpet in my living room. A living room that's carpet looks more like the carpet bombing after ww2 than anything resembling a home. I got out my 13 yr old carpet cleaner to clean it only to find it was broken and wouldn't suck any water up. I was so angry... well, the carpet cleaner is now a loss. I tried calling about getting the piss smell out by calling a pro, only to find it'd be $128 to clean the room. That's nice. The dog is another reason I'm behind on my house payment, blew a disk in his back.... so much for the house payment. (I know there are those who'd say "put him down"... umm, a red mini dachshund? no.. )

So I called my gf who reminded me of how nasty her friends carpet was before she replaced it. Must be nice.. up to debt to her eyeballs, out of job, yet has the ability to somehow get new carpet. Here I am though, stuck with this lingering 13 that just will NOT.. I stress, will NOT go away! I'm making nearly 100k a year and behind on my house payments, and unable to replace a room that smells like a toilet while the neighbor kids all come over. it's a complete personal disaster and an even worse embarrassment.

Whilst I was sulking on this thinking to myself "you're just being selfish and need to grow up" I looked down on the fireplace to see a 1/2 inch long black carpenter ant crawling into a crack in the fireplace. I don't have the money to hire an exterminator though. Perhaps I'll wake up to my house just crumbling.


You people posting on here about how excited you are that you're out of this thing? Wahoo for you. Enjoy your freedom. One thing I have learned from this. Being responsible in the USA gets you NO WHERE! Being a damn bum and just blaming everybody else for what ails you seems to work for everyone. perhaps I should give up my 100k a yr job and flip burgers at mcdonalds and get on welfare. Them people have more windfalls than I can count. It's sickening, and if I didn't have a gf, I assure you this would be my last post... and with what this has caused me at work, I'm lucky to be alive today posting this. And yeah, we're seriously talking suicide.. and yeah, now I'm going to counseling. The only fortunate thing is insurance with my job...

So for you people filing your Ch13's, good luck with that! Hope you get a payment that allows you some cushion for lifes unexpected bills, cause you're gonna have em..


Hos done ranting for now..

[andy158]

Yeah those unexpected problems will hurt. We just had to replace the transmission in our 7yr old car to the tune of $1,800. Definately not the kind of money hanging around in a savings account in a bk13. Had to get permission from lawyer to borrow money from my 401k. Now have a monthly payment of $100 for the next 18 months on top of everything else. Just when you think you are doing ok, another crisis pops up. We keep asking ourselvess, "will it ever get better?".

I agree with you about the people on public assistance. They really need to be held accountable. I am a supported of mandatory drug tests for receipients of welfare. I do not want to support a druggie with free health care, free rent, food stamps, etc. I heard the adage about welfare here that really makes sense. If you pay people to not work, they won't. If you give poeple something for free, they abuse it because they can't put any personal value on it. Those words never rang truer.

Our yearly income is average (middle class.....does that still exist?) and we have to watch every penny. We get by, but like yourself the depression and anxiety get us down too. We have 3 more years to suffer. We haven't been on a vacation for 10 yeas now and feel that we are just "existing". All of our "extra" money went to creditors and we never enjoyed any fruits of our labor. Working for the man to sustain a modest $80k home and put food on the table for our family of four is all we could do. We are not here because of reckless spending like our governmnet is doing. Health issues and a buisness that collapsed four years ago got us here. The cc's kept us alive until the inevitable bk.

[IamOld]

Oh man do I symphatize - I'm just starting a 13, and still living paycheck to paycheck - at least in my district you only have to ask permission if you want to borrow more than $5K, so I don't have to ask if I need to borrow from 401k. I have ZERO desire to EVER get any more credit - I'm done - it is a weakness of mine (job loss or no) and as an alcoholic, I don't need any more.

And yes, from time to time I too feel...like there is no end...

BUT guys don't blame people on welfare - that's small potatoes my friends. Let's not take it out on those worse off than us. I know it's easy, but they are NOT responsible for this crappy economy - the banksters and their lackeys are - the Goldman Sucks of the world are - not someone on welfare. People on welfare have NO power my friends. And EVERY system - EVERY - has people who abuse it, even the welfare system.

And HOS75, I feel like you almost same income, and I do feel like that the more I work, the more I go nowhere...BUT we have to keep going...haven't we? For me, it's keeping going for the kids :-)

[Pandora]

I'm so sorry you're having / had to endure so many set backs during your Ch. 13 and afterwards, but I gotta say that being in a Ch. 13 plan myself, its not really as bad as you make it sound in all honesty. We are a family of 3, and hubby makes less than 70K a year - with a Ch. 13 plan payment of $600 / 60 months. Perhaps the difference in your Ch. 13 plan and someone else's is maybe you didnt plan well enough in your budget or couldnt do so as you needed to due to what you were required to pay back to secured interests ??

We've had set backs along the way (like a sudden $2K unexpected vet bill ) so I feel your pain. We budget for house maintenance, vehicle maintenance, and "extra uh-oh's" through our Ch. 13 plan, and can afford to pay the house payment w/out any difficulty. I do know the biggest thing anyone should consider when entering into a Ch. 13 (choice or otherwise...) is can they afford their house payment in the long run, factoring in those "accidents" that happen along the way. Our rule of thinking is we must be able to come up with an extra $1K somehow within a max of a 2 month period for those things that may suddenly appear and if not, then we need to scale back on something in a big way. This may mean the grocery bill gets cut down to half or our Entertainment fund gets taken (a whopping $60 a month), and may even mean pulling from the clothing & pet care portions that are set aside each month - but one way or another, we can come up with the $ w/out pulling from the "real" bills (i.e., personal property taxes, auto insurance, AAA, health care yearly deductible, etc). Ch. 13 is hard - no doubt about it - but its also not a death sentence.

I hope things get better for you very soon and that you'll be in a better place than you currently are. Congratulations on completing your Ch. 13 plan


ETA: Just saw the part about the pet urine. I can HIGHLY RECOMMEND this product http://www.justrite.com/ and tell you that it will remove and eliminate the smell of ANYTHING from anywhere. The house we purchased is 150 yrs old and over the years had cats that apparently sprayed. Unsealed wood floors absorbed everything and we tried every product and trick known to man - nothing worked. Then I found this guy (who is very very nice btw and will talk to you for an hour if you let him ) and his products are awesome. It will remove the smell / stains you're trying to get out.

[justbroke]

I think Hos, that your case is the epitome of a typical Chapter 13 case. A very tight budget with little to no savings throughout the term of the Plan. This is why Chapter 13s fail. The fact that you had trouble making ends meet during the Chapter 13e, is likely the same position you would have been in if you were outside the Chapter 13. A Chapter 13 does not "change" your financial story, it only magnifies and exposes the issues. That is what I have learned.

I too, a Chapter 13 debtor for 2 years, had "emergencies" arise, let property maintenance issues slide by, and sometimes felt powerless. A Chapter 13 is voluntary so you can't blame the system for your woes. A Chapter 13 is a tool that you leverage against your "prior" creditors; you get this leverage in exchange for surrendering all your disposable monthly income (DMI). After my first "emergency" I knew that I had to stay on budget and save, and so I did! (That budgeting saved me from disaster when I had a septic line that needed to be replaced to the tune of $1K. That money was "not" accounted for in the Plan. This was only 4 months into the Plan!)

I can only hope that you'll take some reflection on everything, because in most cases, it's not the Chapter 13 that caused your woes. It's just called life. There's a saying that I like and that's "life is what happens when you're too busy making plans." It's almost a pun that the word "plan" is in that, because a Chapter 13 "plan" does not actually have "plans" for life's unexpected twists and turns.

I know that you may not like what I just wrote, but I ask you to trust me, that I've been where you are both outside a Chapter 13 plan, and inside a Chapter 13 plan. First week of my Chapter 13 plan, I had to put new tires on the car. The day I filed, I only had $20 in the bank (not figuratively, but actually). There were many times I wanted to "skip" a Chapter 13 payment (which was near $6K/month), so that I could repeat my old mistakes of robbing Peter to pay Paul.

I'm better for the experience. I hope that you learned more than what you perceive as Chapter 13s being something the government shoved down our throats. I hope that other prospective (and actual) Chapter 13 debtors understand that ending payments does not end a Chapter 13. Chapter 13s have always taken months (3-5 months) after Plan completion to discharge. If attorneys aren't informing their clients of this... shame on them.

[Pandora]

Whilst I was sulking on this thinking to myself "you're just being selfish and need to grow up" I looked down on the fireplace to see a 1/2 inch long black carpenter ant crawling into a crack in the fireplace. I don't have the money to hire an exterminator though. Perhaps I'll wake up to my house just crumbling.

May I also recommend Ortho Home Defense Max spray? we use it year round and it works. If you'd rather do what the professionals do (and use) then I recommend getting Borate powder that will kill any wood boring insect and getting Termidor for termites (and yes, all are what professionals use). It will save you tons of $ in the long run. We just did our entire house for less than $100 and have product left over to do the house for the next 3 years.

[IamOld]

I definitely have to second Pandora - where I live we have had - EVERY YEAR - ants in April/May - we tried Orkin and Terminix and a local outfit (of course $30 or so per month) - then - about 2 years ago when a) I couldn't pay the bill any more, and b) we STILL had ants, etc., spouse & son decided to do spraying with the big industrial spray (I think Ortho or some such thing) themselves.

NO ants, my friends, NONE since then - spouse & son did better work for (forgive me) nothing than the exterminators!!!!!!!!

May I also recommend Ortho Home Defense Max spray? we use it year round and it works. If you'd rather do what the professionals do (and use) then I recommend getting Borate powder that will kill any wood boring insect and getting Termidor for termites (and yes, all are what professionals use). It will save you tons of $ in the long run. We just did our entire house for less than $100 and have product left over to do the house for the next 3 years.

[Hos75]

Just when you think you are doing ok, another crisis pops up. We keep asking ourselvess, "will it ever get better?". We get by, but like yourself the depression and anxiety get us down too. We have 3 more years to suffer. We haven't been on a vacation for 10 yeas now and feel that we are just "existing". All of our "extra" money went to creditors and we never enjoyed any fruits of our labor.

You'd better watch that "just existing" attitude, been there, done that, and am still doing that today. You write in a "we", so you aren't doing this alone, my advice is to snap out of it and get away from things for a bit, even if it's to walk to a park together for a day and leave your woes behind, remember why you got married, and get your mind off it.. you can do that for free!

The horror of the ch 13 ghost for me is that I have lost any desire to DO anything. I had no money to ever do anything, and as such I'm now free of the thing, (well, will be in 3 or 4 months when I catch up my house payment) and yet I feel as though a part of me is dead. I have no interest in any hobbies... none, zilch. It's almost as though I'm literally just living in this shell of a body and have no use to my life but to pay off the damn trustee. My house is in such dire need of siding it's pathetic, my gf has been nagging (rightfully so) about getting married.... I almost feel like "what's the use" at work, and it's hard to get motivated to be a good employee anymore. This has nearly cost me a 15 yr career, but atleast the trustee has his money.

[IamOld]

Honestly, hos75, I'm a lot like you - I keep saying if I get beyond this, if I can hold out until pay period beyond next, etc. HOWEVER, the only difference between now and before is that IN THEORY, were I to have made (gross) $150-160 I could have started to work our way out of debt. The reality is that with the layoff last summer, the reality is that wasn't and isn't going to happen. Where I was for over a decade, overpaid (not that I'm complaining :-) - the reality is that I am NOT going to make what I used to make...SO - without the Ch 13, I don't know what we would have done/could have done...I work several P/T jobs also, and last year Oct through this year Feb, I was working, essentially from 6AM through 10pm four nights a week, plus at home...that's not sustainable. SO - if I had been able to do that (and getting various p/t assignments wasn't/isn't guaranteed) for say a few YEARS, then ok, we could have made it out. Right now, after next payday, I've got about $200 "left over" before groceries. So it ain't pretty. Thing is, it was worse before. Now, I still have to pay a legal bill or two for ME, and if it weren't for that, things would be so...tight.

Actually, I was just on an interview this am, with "Major internet company" - old, established. Things went very well (mind you I am - thank God - employed in my field), would be a "promotion" more pay, etc. BUT...they do a credit check (and my job has ZERO access to cash, finances, etc.) - so...we'll see how that rolls...it won't - but it was nice to go - easier commute this AM. As some other folks on this board know, I was/can be...hysterical. Sometimes I feel like I'm manic-depressive. sometimes I feel good, and then crap happens. So like you, I'm very scared. Like you, I really don't (hopefully yet) have $$ set aside for anything. My laptop's screen broke, so I'll have to wait about 2 weeks to have it fixed (anyone know a good used laptop screen store??) - cost is about $100. Honestly, not a second goes by that I don't think about people walking around me without a parole officer (I mean trustee). Yes I'm jealous about people who pull out a $20 at lunch and buy lunch (I just actually bought lunch for $10 and could kick myself). BUT - what are you gonna do right? It is what it is, and we are where we are.

I hope and pray that our plan gets confirmed, and that we're with the trustee who doesn't care about anything under 10%...which means if I get more P/T assignments, I get to make/keep more $$. So that's the plan...for whatever it's worth.

And, sure - I'm at work, and I'm doing this :-) granted it's a slow day here.

So yes, I groan every time anyone at home wants to spend money - but I've been doing that for years - and I wish that my significant other were more on board...but that's another story...

Sorry everyone for the marathon book posting here, but for whatever it's worth, you're not alone...feel free to PM me any time.

Clearly I spend a lot of time with my support group - this board!

You'd better watch that "just existing" attitude, been there, done that, and am still doing that today. You write in a "we", so you aren't doing this alone, my advice is to snap out of it and get away from things for a bit, even if it's to walk to a park together for a day and leave your woes behind, remember why you got married, and get your mind off it.. you can do that for free!

The horror of the ch 13 ghost for me is that I have lost any desire to DO anything. I had no money to ever do anything, and as such I'm now free of the thing, (well, will be in 3 or 4 months when I catch up my house payment) and yet I feel as though a part of me is dead. I have no interest in any hobbies... none, zilch. It's almost as though I'm literally just living in this shell of a body and have no use to my life but to pay off the damn trustee. My house is in such dire need of siding it's pathetic, my gf has been nagging (rightfully so) about getting married.... I almost feel like "what's the use" at work, and it's hard to get motivated to be a good employee anymore. This has nearly cost me a 15 yr career, but atleast the trustee has his money.

[catleg]

I don't like the comment that a chapter 13 is voluntary.
It is not voluntary since the vast majority of us would take a chapter 7 if it was allowed.

[Flamingo]

I read your posting and remembering going through a lot of similar things during our Chapter 13 and having many sleepless nights with only $10 in the checking account on a Monday, payday was Friday, and we both had to drive to work each day the rest of the week. You know what? We survived, pulled through, learned a LOT from it all and will never allow ourselves to be put in that position again (to have to file). A Chapter 13 is the best budget teacher in the world and I have stated that in this forum numerous times. It makes you learn to control your money and not let your money control you. We were discharged in 8/06 and five years later it's like nothing happened except we are much wiser, have learned how to invest and save and not buy one item in seven different colors because the Jones' down the street only have it in six colors! :-)

To the OP - The key to a successful chapter 13 is getting around learning how to change one's former lifestyle - it is HARD to give a lot of stuff up, have to save for things you whipped out the credit card for in the past and have to learn to save cash to pay for something that may occur. I know it's tough - took me years to get over it. But I realized it was my fault and my husband's fault that we were in that position so we hunkered down and made the best of it because there really is a light at the end of the tunnel. Don't give up - things really do get better - you will see what I am saying in the years to come...

[flower04]

totally agree with so much of this (pet urine smell aside...). We are 2/3 through our 13 and there have been times when we had to raid our daughter's piggy bank to buy milk. It's been really hard. Yet, we have survived. Thankfully my 5 year old LOVES Ramen, so that helps with the budget, LOL.

We have had everything happen to us as the original poster described, leading up to and during the 13. Loss of job, underwater on house, had to move due to new job and walk away from house, medical bills for our 7 year old daughter that are almost about 600$ a month, we could only prove about $250 a month for her during our budget so we have really had to skimp in order to pay them.

It all sucks and it is going to suck for a while. Once we get out of this, we'll have $40K in student loans to pay and 1 more year of our car payments that have been interest only during our bk. AND, since we aren't making mortgage payments, we had to pay the IRS this year a good chunk of change, and our attorney didn't get that money, So, we'll have to set-up some sort of payment plan after our trustee payments are made so we can finish paying our attorney!!
So, a "clean slate" isn't what you think. Our credit is shot, etc. BUT, we have each other, we have a roof over our head. We live in a great area with great schools and good kids to play with. My husbnd has a good job that is relatively secure for now. I can't complain. I, too, am hoping that in the years to come we'll look back adn say, "WOW, what a hard time, but what an expereince to learn and grow from."
Good luck to on. Press on!! Press on!!