Chapter 13 Struggles... Barely able to make payments... may divorce...

[dbr]

DBR Update
Thanks to all and I mean all who post and give advice and info, really does help.

Problem #1 - Ok we had our face to face with attorney (paralegal), went just ok. We have to request to keep our tax refund which in turn may open us up to review of 09 & 10 tax return. That will not be good due to the overtime. No overtime an y more, maybe one shift a month. Attorney will review and let us know this week.

Problem #2 - Income versus Expenses, Looks like we may file for amendment if after we provide more info, Attorney believes it will fly. I have spent 8 hours yesterday and today attempting to document expenss not accounted for on sched J. This is difficult for a lot of things, I mean how do you document the expenses at the store for four kids. Anyway, we are giving the Attorney one last chance to help us, after that all bets are off. It was mentioned that we may not want to do anything due to the overtime, in other words, fly under the radar. What a scary thought that is.

Problem #3 - Insurance, Thanks IAMOLD for the post, I called to protest and was explained to me that there is nothing I can do until our credit score is raised. Our risk assesment score is too high because of the chapter 13. I had a flooded basement and called to ask about coverage, which there is none, and they insisted I filed a claim. TOTAL BS> but none the less there is also a claim. BUT - They insisted the chapter 13 was the largest mitigating factor in our credit score nosedive and therefore the risk assesment score falling (or actually going up). Also, I talked to no less than three other insurance companies and a Independeant broker, all said exact same thing - no can do in a chapter 13. One or two could provide but not any cheaper. One would not even look at anything because of the chapter 13. No disaters in our area, tornados recently but that had nothing to with this last year.

I will update this post later when we hear from the Attorney.

To WIll bucko - I imagine there are many in the same situation, think of all we don't hear from. We will survive this one way or another. This site is truly a blessing.

Thanks Again All

[dbr]

Update: Not much to update, met with another paralegal this time, better than the other but still seems like a dead end road. We were told it will take 4-6 weeks for the attorney to review and let us know about the request to keep tax check.

Asked about fiing to amend and lower payment and were told most likely not going to happen. Wifes overtime will kill the deal. Total frustration.

We asked about stripping our heloc and were told they will look at that after the tax check motion (4-6 weeks). This just seems ridiculous to file three different motions at three different times for the same plan. Each motion will take 4-6 weeks for the attorney to look at. BK mill no doubt.

I am terrified to fire them or get dismissed due to no money for new attorney, my god groceries and gas are hard to pay for, and what if we go all the way back to square and restart the 60 months.

I do not understand what the 100% repayment plan means. We have creditors that get everything and some that don't. Maybe somebody can help me with this.

I think the expenses on the sch. J are really low still, could not get a straight answer form her on that. Do I keep nagging about that?

We do not want to divorce over this but what other choice do we have if we get no relief?

Thanks for listening, hope all have a wonderful holiday.

[lrprn]

Divorce won't solve your financial problems. Now is the time to get your arms around what needs to be done to unearth yourselves from the financial mess you both now find yourselves in.

You've filed already. Unfortunately it sounds like you selected a lawyer that hides behind staff - may be a bk mill or just a lawyer who has taken on too many cases. 4-6 weeks to look at anything is excessive. Looking at them in a linear fashion rather than dealing with all three of your issues at once is (let's be kind) foolish.

You really have two choices: (1) fight for yourselves with your current lawyer by continuing to frequently contact the office until your questions are answered and your plan amended to something that is realistic, or (2) fire your current lawyer and get another one.

Many Ch 13 lawyers do set their clients' expenses at what is reasonable for the area and family size on Schedule J. Did your lawyer do that or just put down whatever figures you gave him/her?

It may be that your income really can't support a Ch 13 plan. How much disposable income does your current plan show? Is that the amount calculated from the Means Test or from Schedule I and J?

[dbr]

We will fight this attorney for a little while longer. I sent an e-mail requesting a face to face with an attorney, not a paralegal. After that meeting, if we get it, we will decide what happens.

Yes we explained before anything that this payment is almost as much as all of the bills w were paying, also being sued for construction loans and property we could not sell. We were told this is your payment take it or don't file. Scared to death, we filed.

Some expenses listed are not even close to realistic, see previous post. Seriously 3-400 per month would make huge difference. That's enough for us to survive, not get ahead but survive.

I have read posts where some say it was easy to take vacations, go out to eat, buy another car, they just budget for it. We don't have one red penny to budget after we make all the payments and go grocery shopping. Something is out of whack with this.

I would love to fire this attorney but my fear is hiring another one and having to start over or be told we will have the same payment, but I can get no answers (from another attorney) until I fire them. This is scary stuff.

[dbr]

Ok I found the minimum pay in is $85,776. Divided by 60 months is only $1429 per month. Our dmi is what has raised the payment, but realistic expenses should offset that, right????

[dbr]

Latest update: I e-mailed and asked (demanded) for an appointment with the attorney (again). Received the normal standard reply - the paralegal can help you. Emailed the pl and explained we have already met, gave you copies of everything you asked for, we are still waiting for you to tell us what is going to happen and when.
Very frustrated I asked "do not remember any of this"?
Her reply, yes I am sorry I forgot who you were. Appontment made with an attorney in 10 days.
My reply : Everything is going to get fixed or you will release us as clients.
Can you believe this, they forgot about us and then forgot who we were. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

[keepsmiling]

Ouch. How unprofessional.

[IamOld]

That's exactly right "unprofessional" to say the least...once you're done with them, complaints to bar assoc...?

[newphoenix]

Was the majority of you debt business related? I filed a non-consumer Chapter 7 case due to a business failure. Was this an option for you instead of the Chapter 13? If our debt had been primarily consumer debt we would have had to go Chapter 13.

Others with more experience can chime in here because I don't know the difficulty of switching attorneys during a 13 but I would consider this option if it were me based on what you've said so far.

[dbr]

Our first attorney, just met and advised, was a trustee also, told us our business debt was short of the threshhold to file 7. Insisted we could not even file a 13 due to high income. WTF?
Second att. we are currently with, insisted the payments are correct and nothing can be done. We struggled mightely to follow through but had no choice as lawsiuts were filed against business. We signed personally for all loans, required by bank. Over 350k. Land and homes under construction were foreclosed, bank bought back on court house steps, sued us for remaining amount, 125k. Considered unsecured and getting about 18k in our payments. When we read the writing on the wall, filed on everything to get a clean start, bad choice i guess, clean start is not even on the radar now.

I have read several posts about divorcing for strategic reasons, some for some against. If our attorney cannot get the payment lowered, I have an attorney waiting to guide us through that process. He will not advise until we fire present attorney. Praying this is not needed.

Scary, very scary.

[newphoenix]

Are you close to qualifying for Ch. 7 or are you pretty far away. At first our attorney filed a consumer Ch. 7 and the UST filed presumption of abuse to try to get us into a 13. Our income was too high for a regular Chapter 7. We went through all of our debt including our home equity line (which was used for business purposes) and proved that our debt was over 50% non-consumer. It wasn't quick or easy-it took almost an entire year and cost us extra to have our accountant go over everything and document it but it was worth it. Is your current attorney familiar with handling business bankruptcies? Make sure that whoever you speak with is because it will make a HUGE difference.

Make whatever decisions are best for your family. If a strategic divorce brings financial recovery to your family then don't hesitate if that's what you have to do.

It is scary but hang in there. It does get better. For awhile my kids were taking peanut butter sandwiches to school because I didn't have the money to give them for lunch. It does cause stress in one's marriage but realize that it is the situation and not your spouse that's the problem and you'll get through it.

[dbr]

OMG: Wife spoke with attorney yesterday, attorney explained that the ot cancels any chance at modfication. Wife explains ot is non existant now, cannot keep up with fuel and additional medical expenses. Plan was a failure from the get go.

Wife now needs ear surgery, attorney says you cannot keep the tax check to pay for it unless you prove you can pay the additional $600 for the surgery. Really, we can barely pay for the gas to drive to the surgery but cannot keep the tax check to help pay for the surgery. WTF. We need a modification to pay for about $2-3k worth of medical and dental procedures, this is crazy.

Attorney suggested we take our teen age daughter to planned parent hood instead of doctor to save money. Are you friggin kidding me, we pay hundreds of dollars for insurance, daughter needs another "female" procedure and she suggested an abortion clinic. I am sick now.

Wife basically explained that the conversation is now over. I am over and done, e-mailed today and asked for release, called and made appointment with an attorney today for next week.

I am scared, very scared, please somebody tell me we made the right choice.

[IamOld]

First I think I'm safe to say that we are all here for you. From what I've seen plans can get midified.

Just from his language your atty is unprofessional at best and an ahole at worst.

Go get new atty asap and while this may not be professional misconduct I'd file a complaint with the bar anyway!

[dbr]

Update: Met with new attorney, he looked at almost everything, decided we were right, previous attorney was quite possibly stupid. Also explained in the attorney circle they are viewed as less than an average firm. To make a long story as

[mckinnea]

Your full post didnt come through..