Trustee trying to speed up plan after 2 years in can she do that?

[IamOld]

We are going to court over this one, even if my lawyer does not want to, and he doesnt. We are going to apply Lanning based on my husbands income is part commision and is extremely variable. We are also going to argue that the commision has been put in our retirement accounts and that we are over 50 and need to begin saving. We drained our IRA's to stay afloat before our BK began, so we are trying to play catch up. If anyone has been succuessful with this arguement, please chime in!

I wish I could supply something useful, other than is it good "public policy" to have people arrive at retirement/SS age and have no other retirement savings?

[momofthree]

We are going to court over this one, even if my lawyer does not want to, and he doesnt. We are going to apply Lanning based on my husbands income is part commision and is extremely variable. We are also going to argue that the commision has been put in our retirement accounts and that we are over 50 and need to begin saving. We drained our IRA's to stay afloat before our BK began, so we are trying to play catch up. If anyone has been succuessful with this arguement, please chime in!

The argument that your income is extremely variable could actually work against you. That is the reason that trustees like to have you pay off sooner rather than equally spreading out the payments over the 5 years. So much can change in 5 years. He wants the money NOW while he knows you have it. A year from now, you might not....Like you said, that is the nature of sales...

Also, if you're having to submit a new schedule I, then you may also need to submit a new schedule J, and with your kids over 18, they may not count towards household size anymore. If you're paying 100% anyway, I'd suggest just sticking with the figure they have now rather than having to resubmit everything. The sooner you're out from under the trustee's thumb, the better. My vote is to just pay the additional and get it over with...

[momofthree]

Another idea is that you could offer up any above average commission checks in the future if they agree to keep your monthly payment the same as it is now. For example, if your average commission check is normally $3000, then if you got one for $7000, you'd send them in the lump sum of $4000. That way, if you don't end up with any large commission checks in the future, you're spared the higher payment, and if you do receive them, the tt gets his money without your budget necessarily "feeling" it. This is how yearly bonuses are often treated in the ch.13 plan.

[IamOld]

Another idea is that you could offer up any above average commission checks in the future if they agree to keep your monthly payment the same as it is now. For example, if your average commission check is normally $3000, then if you got one for $7000, you'd send them in the lump sum of $4000. That way, if you don't end up with any large commission checks in the future, you're spared the higher payment, and if you do receive them, the tt gets his money without your budget necessarily "feeling" it. This is how yearly bonuses are often treated in the ch.13 plan.

Hello Momofthree - if a bonus needs to be paid to trustee, does that possibly reduce the time then of the plan or is it just more money to creditors?

[momofthree]

Hello Momofthree - if a bonus needs to be paid to trustee, does that possibly reduce the time then of the plan or is it just more money to creditors?

In a 100% plan (which the OP is in), it shortens the length of the plan. In a less than 100% plan, it increases the payout to creditors, while the length of the plan remains the same.

[IamOld]

In a 100% plan (which the OP is in), it shortens the length of the plan. In a less than 100% plan, it increases the payout to creditors, while the length of the plan remains the same.

Understood! Thank you!!! any particular amount or % a trustee might be interested in? I may (emphasize MAY!) get a 5% bonus - around 3K gross next year. MAY.

[dlinid]

The schedules already include an average commission of $1000 a month along with salary. Some months is is that, some months it is more and that is when we contribute to our IRA and 401k. I too hope that we will not have to resubmit schedules, but the trustee is a hell hound and just lives to fight and cause mayhem. Our lawyer hates dealing with her and admits that she becomes more difficult each day. But, that is his job and I expect him to do it.

[IamOld]

dlinid, do you think it's because you are in a small jurisdiction and they have more time on their hands?

[dlinid]

Actually, this a very busy district! We have very high BK and foreclosure rates. I also think that a lot of people here fall out of their 13's due to the trustee's unreasonable nature. She pushes everyone into 100% repayment- she is the terminator and has everyone frightened. I have seen grown men tear up in her presence. She has been pushing hard to get everyone completed early because she is losing income due to all the fall outs. Attorneys just roll over for her and do not like to go in front of the judge to argue. I do not get that, she loses as much as she wins.

They try to appease her and have a cordial relationship with her. I am not sure she sleeps or is human for that matter I am sure there are some very fair and laid back trustees, we are not so lucky here.

[IamOld]

Actually, this a very busy district! We have very high BK and foreclosure rates. I also think that a lot of people here fall out of their 13's due to the trustee's unreasonable nature. She pushes everyone into 100% repayment- she is the terminator and has everyone frightened. I have seen grown men tear up in her presence. She has been pushing hard to get everyone completed early because she is losing income due to all the fall outs. Attorneys just roll over for her and do not like to go in front of the judge to argue. I do not get that, she loses as much as she wins.

They try to appease her and have a cordial relationship with her. I am not sure she sleeps or is human for that matter I am sure there are some very fair and laid back trustees, we are not so lucky here.

That's just nuts - period....are you guys over the ID median by a lot? Is that maybe why? FOr once I don't mind living in an expensive area, although my metro area's median is about 20-30K over my state's...

[dlinid]

I think the trustee see's that we had a good year and assumes it will continue. What she fails to realize is that one big sale will not repeat for 5 or more years, and that it took over a year of courting the customer to make that sale. One whale- a large customer-comes around like a comet and then poof, see you again in years.

Most sales are small. I am almost upset that he made that sale, it is causing more suffering than joy. I guess we will have to fight that in front of the judge, my husband is sick of bending over for the trustee, she has upped our payments twice and we adapted, but this is a DOUBLING of our current payment. Our income did not double, so we have to fight this.

It will take three weeks to see the attorney and then a month for a hearing. In the meantime, we are going to enjoy the spring and time with our family and hand over our tax refund

[IamOld]

I think the trustee see's that we had a good year and assumes it will continue. What she fails to realize is that one big sale will not repeat for 5 or more years, and that it took over a year of courting the customer to make that sale. One whale- a large customer-comes around like a comet and then poof, see you again in years.

Most sales are small. I am almost upset that he made that sale, it is causing more suffering than joy. I guess we will have to fight that in front of the judge, my husband is sick of bending over for the trustee, she has upped our payments twice and we adapted, but this is a DOUBLING of our current payment. Our income did not double, so we have to fight this.

It will take three weeks to see the attorney and then a month for a hearing. In the meantime, we are going to enjoy the spring and time with our family and hand over our tax refund

Good for you!!! Hopefully the judge will see the light...all my best wishes and hopes!!!!!

[dlinid]

Thank you for the good wishes. I want to clarify, we did not get a one time huge windfall, the commissions came in over 6 months as the contract was completed. I would have called my attorney if we had received a one time BIG commission. It was the trickle effect and the ability to finally put something towards our retirement that made me think it was ok to fund our IRA. That and the fact we were already paying 100% and was instructed by our attorney that at 100% we would be left alone. Wrong!

I will come back and let the forum know about arguing the Lanning effect with our judge.

Enjoy your family and the Spring, they cant take that away from us!

[IamOld]

Thank you for the good wishes. I want to clarify, we did not get a one time huge windfall, the commissions came in over 6 months as the contract was completed. I would have called my attorney if we had received a one time BIG commission. It was the trickle effect and the ability to finally put something towards our retirement that made me think it was ok to fund our IRA. That and the fact we were already paying 100% and was instructed by our attorney that at 100% we would be left alone. Wrong!

I will come back and let the forum know about arguing the Lanning effect with our judge.

Enjoy your family and the Spring, they cant take that away from us!

Thanks and you too!!! Well according to the Sup Ct you should be able to use it!!!

[LadyInTheRed]

The schedules already include an average commission of $1000 a month along with salary. Some months is is that, some months it is more and that is when we contribute to our IRA and 401k.

Are the commissions ever less than $1,000? If not, I think this is why you are running into trouble. If your schedules show an average commission of $1,000 and it is sometimes more than that, it should also sometimes be less than that. If it is always $1,000 or more, than your schedules understated the average commission and your disposable income.

If the commissions are always $1,000 or more, I think momofthree made a good suggestion. Offer to pay the trustee any commission over $1,000. It sounds like having to amend your schedules may not be in your best interests.

I'm curious what caused the trustee to pursue you. Do you have to send her your income tax returns every year?