Missing from Credit Report. Should I include them?

[NewChanges4]

I finally filed my Chapter 13 today. Upon the advice of my bankruptcy attorney, I pulled my three free annual credit reports yesterday. Something odd that jumped out at me is that there are a lot of old charge-offs that are no longer listed. There are probably about 6 or 7 old cards that were charged off anywhere from 7 to 15 years ago that were on my report from last year but have disappeared from this year's report. However, I have received collection notices from them as recently as 3 months ago.

I should mention here that I asked the attorney about the missing accounts. Maybe they were deleted after I disputed them?? Her concern though was that maybe they were incorrectly missing from my report and if that is the case, I should keep in the back of my mind that they could try to come back and sue me at some point and to err on the side of caution and include ALL the debt I can remember ever owing.

My question is: How can I know for sure? This is a difference of about $10,000 - $15,000. Will someone check to make sure the debt is valid and the amounts are correct? I keep thinking that someone somewhere in Arizona has forgotten about a debt from 2002 of $4,000 but will now get that money just because I'm scared NOT to include it.

Sorry if my question doesn't make sense. I just want to be sure I have time to make any necessary corrections. This is a pretty good chunk of change every month.

[df04527]

In my opinion, your lawyer has given you good advice. INCLUDE them -- then no worry's. Do not allow them to ever come back and sue you.

[NewChanges4]

df04527 - Thanks! Do you happen to know if they verify the amount owed to the penny? I had to guess on the dollar amounts of the ones not listed on my reports. For instance... If I said Dillard's was $4,000 but it turns out it was $2,200, will they catch this and adjust my 'whatever it's called' to reflect the correct amount to be repaid? I don't want to pay them too much and I know no one wants to be paid too little either.

[df04527]

I wish I had a solid answer for this but I don't know from a Chapter 13 perspective. We have lots and lots of Chapter 13 folks here and I'm sure someone will jump in.

And now that I think about it - i'm recanting my original response as well -- I apologize -- it could be the same answer but I'm less confident with a 13 and would feel much more comfortable if these answers came from a 13 person....

Just want to be sure I don't stray you off in the wrong direction....

[lrprn]

Creditors missing from your credit report mean nothing. By law, you must list every known debt when you file. That's the right thing to do as your lawyer has already advised.

As long as the missing creditors are non-secured, it doesn't affect your Ch 13 payment whatsoever. It just means the extra creditors not on your credit report + those on it get smaller parts of the same money pie for themselves It's best to make sure that *NO* creditors can come after you later down the road. List them ALL when you file, no matter how small the amount.

[jcj112562]

Include ALL the debt you know you have, listed on the report or not. I know there were even a couple creditors that I had long forgotten about, were not on the credit report, but they found out I declared Bk13, and filed a claim.

As for the amounts you list for what is owed, what *you* tell the court/trustee really does not matter a whole lot, as the creditor will submit a claim for what they can prove you owe them. Most of the amounts I listed on the schedules differed from the claimed amounts from the creditors. As was stated above, it really will not matter to you how much the total of the claims come to, unless you are in a 100% payback to unsecured, all that does is share the monies paid to unsecured in a different way (some get more than before, some get less).

John

[frogger]

In a 13, it is critical to list all creditors. Not only are you required by law to list every creditor, if you do not list them in a 13, they do not have an opportunity to participate in your bk process (unless they find out that you filed). If you do not give a creditor an opportunity to participate in your bk plan, it is possible that they can come after you for the debt after your discharge.

If you don't get the $$$ right, it is not going to be too big of a concern, for your creditors are going to be required to file proofs of claim with supporting documentation, and the $$$ will be corrected there. The most important thing is to LIST EACH AND EVERY CREDITOR!

[NewChanges4]

Thanks everyone! I listed everyone that I could remember. I even came home and looked through some old boxes of bills that I had planned to pay... "When we had extra money." Obviously that didn't happen. :-( I didn't see anything that I didn't list so I hope that's a good thing. Now that I am trying to repay every one and get this behind me, it doesn't even matter who lines up. I'm ready to face this head on so I can get past it. Most of the unsecured debt is from a time in my life when I was much younger and very irresponsible but ironically had a much, much higher FICO score. Some of it is medical debt from multiple surgeries and when we had our son. Still some of it is from a time period when I was unemployed and living off credit cards. Just ready to move past it.

Thanks again, all!!

[bling32]

They are probably beyond the SOL. Also, negative items should fall off credit report 7 years from the last activity. (except for BK, Liens, Judgement). I would check the SOL for your state b/c they probably cannot collect. Some collections agencies will purchase these old debts and try to collect.

[NewChanges4]

bling - If these debts are beyond the SOL, will they still be able to make a claim and be paid as part of my 13? My attorney gave me her best estimate based on all unsecured debt being repaid at 100% over 60 months. Even the ones that are no longer showing on my credit report. I know that there are a lot of people that pay a lot more but thinking of paying $711/mo for the next 60 months makes me ill.

I'm not sure if anyone can tell me the answer to this but... If I get to a point where those creditors are not filing any claims to get paid and I'm left with the bad debts that are significantly less, will I be able to attempt to convert to a 7? Or should I leave well enough alone and stick with the 13? The first attorney I spoke to said he was certain I would qualify for a 7. However, the attorney I ended up retaining said she didn't see any way that I would ever be able to file a 7 and 13 was my only option. So I went with the 13.

[frogger]

bling - If these debts are beyond the SOL, will they still be able to make a claim and be paid as part of my 13?

They can make a claim provided that they have supporting documentation. If it is beyond the SOL however, your attorney can get the claim denied.

But....... even if some of your debts are beyond the SOL, LIST THEM ANYWAY!

That way, when they get sold to a bottom feeder, you can just say that they were discharged in bk. There is a huge difference between discharged and beyond the SOL.