I Want to make sure I understand the 13.

[mom2crazies]

I was going to ask this on a couple of other threads, but didn't want to hijack, so I thought I would start a new one.

Anyway, I am preparing myself for the worst, which would be a 36 mo. chapter 13 (because, we are under median for the 7). I plugged in all of the income (incl. my SS and my children's SS) with NO exemptions other than what the IRS ones were on this website:

http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/means-test/

It said that my disposable income was $1500, or so (HA!!!!). Which, that would pay back 95K over 5 years and we are at 65K total, so I am assuming the payments would be less, but we would only be in a 3 year plan so I am sure that they could be just as high. (I don't even know if this is reliable, but I was using it as a guideline of what to possibly expect, so I don't have a heart attack in the court room)

However, I guess what I want to know is:

1. Do the trustees ever allow for the exemptions that you and your attorney put in, or do they adhere to the strict policy of only the IRS allowances? What is the norm? I'm just trying to get a feel of how strict these trustees are and if I should automatically assume that they won't allow any other exemptions or adjustments.

2. To make sure I understand the process right : You file the 13 (or convert if you are me). Within so many days (15?), you submit YOUR repayment plan to the trustee, within 30 days you begin to make payments even if the amount is not confirmed. (Are these payments YOUR proposed plan, or does the trustee make you pay what THEY decide, even without you agreeing, before the confirmation?) At the confirmation, the judge will make the official order after listening to the trustee and your attorney and you and then confirm the payment plan and time depending on his mood of the day.

3. Also, let me make sure I have this correct, The 341 is different than the confirmation right? I am assuming the 341 is first, or are they done at the same time?

(If there is a resource or sticky with the correct timeline that would be great, I couldn't find anything and I really looked!)

My last question is regarding after the plan is confirmed. Will the trustee regularly review your case to make sure that you are not experiencing a decrease in expenses or increase in pay. For example our son goes to preschool. His preschool ends in May. Will the trustee likely go after that tuition amount? How do they, if it's possible?

I know I'm posting a ton, so thanks for being patient with me! It probably seems like I am asking redundant or obvious questions. I just want to make sure I understand things completely...and also, I am having constant anxiety attacks thinking about this

[newbie2]

I was going to ask this on a couple of other threads, but didn't want to hijack, so I thought I would start a new one.

Anyway, I am preparing myself for the worst, which would be a 36 mo. chapter 13 (because, we are under median for the 7). I plugged in all of the income (incl. my SS and my children's SS) with NO exemptions other than what the IRS ones were on this website:

http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/means-test/

It said that my disposable income was $1500, or so (HA!!!!). Which, that would pay back 95K over 5 years and we are at 65K total, so I am assuming the payments would be less, but we would only be in a 3 year plan so I am sure that they could be just as high. (I don't even know if this is reliable, but I was using it as a guideline of what to possibly expect, so I don't have a heart attack in the court room) If you are under the median now, and it says your disposable income is $1500 per month, I would bet that you are not taking all allowable expenses and missing some big ones.

However, I guess what I want to know is:

1. Do the trustees ever allow for the exemptions that you and your attorney put in, or do they adhere to the strict policy of only the IRS allowances? What is the norm? I'm just trying to get a feel of how strict these trustees are and if I should automatically assume that they won't allow any other exemptions or adjustments.Yes, you can go over the allowable expenses, just be prepared to have receipts and such. (IE: Medical, utilities, etc.)

2. To make sure I understand the process right : You file the 13 (or convert if you are me). Within so many days (15?), you submit YOUR repayment plan to the trustee, within 30 days you begin to make payments even if the amount is not confirmed. (Are these payments YOUR proposed plan, or does the trustee make you pay what THEY decide, even without you agreeing, before the confirmation?) At the confirmation, the judge will make the official order after listening to the trustee and your attorney and you and then confirm the payment plan and time depending on his mood of the day. The first payment is due within 30 days of your date of filing, not date of of submitting your payment plan. The "Proposed" payment amount is just that - proposed. It is what you and your attorney submit, and that is to be the amount you pay unless you hear differently from the trustee.

3. Also, let me make sure I have this correct, The 341 is different than the confirmation right? I am assuming the 341 is first, or are they done at the same time? No, they are not done at the same time. (Although we have read here that it can happen that the case is confirmed on the same day, that is extremely rare.)

(If there is a resource or sticky with the correct timeline that would be great, I couldn't find anything and I really looked!)

My last question is regarding after the plan is confirmed. Will the trustee regularly review your case to make sure that you are not experiencing a decrease in expenses or increase in pay. For example our son goes to preschool. His preschool ends in May. Will the trustee likely go after that tuition amount? How do they, if it's possible? I am not sure how it works with education / pre-school expenses, as we didn't have young children. At any time a trustee can review your case, but that also is rare. That usually only happens to those who have an increase in income. A decrease in expenses (car payment that will end, etc) is usually noticed by the trustee before the confirmation hearing and a "step up" plan is put in place. I haven't heard about that happening with child care expenses, perhaps others will know more about this.

I know I'm posting a ton, so thanks for being patient with me! It probably seems like I am asking redundant or obvious questions. I just want to make sure I understand things completely...and also, I am having constant anxiety attacks thinking about this

It's always better to ask then to be blindsided later. Avoid the anxiety attacks :-)

[woeisme]

I think mom2crazies is under the median but has high DMI due to Social Security income, which is not considered in means test but is used to determine DMI. At least that is what happened in our case, just wage income used in means test but son's survivors benefits included in calculating DMI and payback amount.

In our case we did have daycare expense change, as you did, and trustee didn't come back to us for the $ until we had another change in the plan (husband couldn't work due to disability) so we had to re-do the entire schedule then, including expenses that had gone down but had so many that went up and then loss of income it was still the right choice to go back and re-do the schedules for us ($1100 payment reduced to $400 even with the loss of daycare costs!). But the truth is no one can answer to what your particular trustee will do. Some are just happy to let you fly under the radar and complete your plans and don't care about changes unless you bring it up with them, some are hard-nosed who require you to jump hoops every year with tax returns, etc. It's a sad thing, but it seems to me to be pure luck of the draw as to what type trustee you get. Your attorney who has worked with your particular trustee is the best one to answer these questions since everyone's experiences on here vary for the exact same issues. Best of luck!

[mom2crazies]

I want my friends trustee who didn't do anything at all!! She was WAY over the median with a ton of disposable income and "fluffy" exemptions (she said). Maybe I will get the same chapter 7 guy. I know the chapter 13 trustees seem to be ALOT stricter and harder to work with (that's just my own opinion from lurking on this board and reading the other stuff out there)

Newbie2: Yes, anxiety attacks. I had a horrible one last night and today I'm just a complete shell. I don't know how we got here (well, I know being a bipolar shopping addict certainly didn't help). I feel like it's my job to protect my family and children and I feel like I am not doing well at it, at all. Does anyone else have days where you feel this deep hole of hopelessness?

[LadyInTheRed]

mom2crazies, you ARE protecting your children by taking a necessary step to improve your financial situation. You deserve a pat on the back for confronting your problems for a better future instead of sticking your head in the sand.

To minimize anxiety, I suggest you focus your energy on working with your attorney to get the Chap 7 petition in good order instead of focusing on the what ifs. I know you want to be prepared for what might happen. Maybe it is enough to know that there is a possiblity you will have to dismiss the 7 or convert it to a 13 and be emotianally ready for that possibility. Worry about the details of the 13 if and when you need to. Just my 2 cents. You are the only one who knows what works to reduce your anxiety level. Hopefully, there is something that can do that for you besides shopping.

[mom2crazies]

Hopefully, there is something that can do that for you besides shopping.

HA HA HA! Yes, definitely NOT tempted to shop! I will however, read my Dave Ramsey book one more time.