Will my kids have to quit their activities?

[mom2crazies]

Ok. Another question I couldn't find a post for while doing a search.

My children are involved with extra-curricular activities where I pay a monthly tuition. Some of the fees are paid in cash because they are for private lessons, but I can show proof of all fees. My son is also enrolled in preschool.

Can they make our children quit these activities and make us apply that money to our repayment plan (if we are made to convert) even though they have been involved in these activities for years?

This is further complicated by the fact that myself and my children receive SSDI. The money for these activities comes out of their separate checking account for the most part. I cover the balance out of my own SSDI money and if necessary, my husband sometimes helps.

I'm really hoping that I don't have to worry about this and that it is not included when they calculate our disposable income.

[momindebt]

I know that we were not allowed to technically budget for ANY children's expenses minus housing, food, clothing, etc. We could not budget for dance lessons, sporting activities, school pictures, etc.. We took our budget that we presented to the court and cut corners where we could to come up with some of the money for their school activities or lessons. We also went back to our children and found out which activities were priority, and they gave up the ones that they were not as committed to. This was the toughest part of the Chapter 13 for me, and I literally cried at the attorney's office when I found out this. I am now able to have a different viewpoint on it, and am pleased to see my kids understanding the need to budget, to live within owns means, and that money doesn't grow on trees. It was a very hard part of the Chapter 13 for us....that and not being able to budget for their college fund. Hugs to you-I know this can be very frought with emotion.

While I am aware of what SSDI, I do not know how that figures into a Chapter 13 so I won't even guess....Best of luck sorting it out!

[BookGoddess]

I don't know if this helps you at all but we got to budget 3k for one of our children Homeschooling costs and it was accepted. That included lessons! Our lawyer fit it in, there must be some kind of way to fit in educational lessons because that is what those are.

[HHM]

It depends on what sort of activities we are talking about and the over all cost. Generally, $0-$500 per month is acceptable if there is a reasonable justification for the activity and cost. You start going over that amount, and you will likely get push back from the trustee.

[momindebt]

We couldn't budget for ANY lessons, activities, children's expenses in our plan at all. We have a strong budget but in this area there was no wiggle room. We weren't attempting to budget for any educational needs so I can't speak any opinion on that issue. The activities were even supported by documentation from our children's physicians due to their disabilities (i.e.: activities being really appropriate for them for various reasons), but we still could not place them in our plan in our district. : (

[mom2crazies]

momindebt - That makes me nervous! Part of the reason why I am so worried is that DD has SEVERE ADHD and Anxiety. She cannot cope with change. She spent 5 months depressed, sick to her stomach, and lashed out with behavioral problems when her dance studio closed down. We have found her a new one that she loves and she is no longer sick to her stomach and is finally enjoying her life again. If she cannot continue, I don't know what I will do. I don't want my 10 year old on anti-anxiety and anti-depressants. I will fight tooth and nail for their social security, however. Which is what covers her activities.

[BKParalegal]

Have your attorney classify these debts as medical and dental expenses and get your doctor to write a letter saying these activities have therapeutic value just in case.

Good luck...that was for your attorney not for you ;) jk

[MOMof3]

We were able to include our swim club tuition of $135/month. Preschool expense was included as "daycare" since that is what it is for us. Your attorney should be able to find room for at least a portion of their activities--especially those that help medically.

[BKAttyMI]

This really depends on your plan and what you're doing with the 13. There is a "recreation" item where these activities will be budgeted in. Even so, within your budget, you can cut back in other areas if something is truly important to you. Just because you have so much budgeted for food a month doesn't mean you need to spend that all on food, you can cut back on food to pay for extra activities, etc.

[mom2crazies]

Well, We are filing a 7, but because of my SSDI on schedule I, they may make us convert to a 13. The kids activities come out of their SSDI, which I don't understand why they would be included in the calculations for the payment plan, but I am being told it is a possibility (which REALLY incenses me!). Does this happen for child support as well? I cannot understand why they would force me to include their money that is paid directly to them in our repayment plan, let alone the SSDI to me.

[BKAttyMI]

SS income is not included in the means test to determine if you are above the state median income. However, it is included in Schedule I. If you have enough disposable income left over at the end of the month on Schedule I to fund a Chapter 13 plan, you will be bumped into a 13. Even though they are your children's benefits, they are part of the household income and used to support the household, thus, they are used to support household debt. This is when it pays to have an attorney that knows how to present this to a Trustee.

[mom2crazies]

This is what makes me so incensed because of all of these that contradict the schedule I:

Social Security Act : Sec. 207. [42 U.S.C. 407]
USC title 11 chap1 § 101 (10A)(B)

Then, the biggest issue in regards to my children's benefits (and what I am talking about on this thread):

USC title 11 Chap 13 § 1325 (b)(2)

I do not follow the logic that the schedule I supercedes any of this. Especially, when it states that these benefits are not to be figured into CMI or disposable income, which is what is used to determine your payment amount on your chapter 13!

ETA - These benefits are actually not even used for "household" expenses. They are deposited into separate accounts and used accordingly. I did that for accounting purposes and to make sure that the SS money never got mixed with my husbands income.

[newbie2]

Sometimes there is no logic. Make sure you are comfortable that your attorney will fight for you (and your children). This may be your ace in the hole: ETA - These benefits are actually not even used for "household" expenses. They are deposited into separate accounts and used accordingly. I did that for accounting purposes and to make sure that the SS money never got mixed with my husbands income.

[Pandora]

I do not follow the logic that the schedule I supercedes any of this. Especially, when it states that these benefits are not to be figured into CMI or disposable income, which is what is used to determine your payment amount on your chapter 13!

ETA - These benefits are actually not even used for "household" expenses. They are deposited into separate accounts and used accordingly. I did that for accounting purposes and to make sure that the SS money never got mixed with my husbands income.

Mom2crazies

Your SSD / your childrens SSD received on behalf of your disability do not count in the means test but it will count if you end up showing more DMI on the schedules. It's just the way it works unfortunately - loopholes abound. The reason the money counts RE: your children's benefits is because they receive it in care of you, i.e, Custodian. You are required to fill out all the forms SSD sends yearly (twice a year) as to where the $ your children receive is going, whether it be saved or spent. Once your children turn 18 (doesnt matter if they're still in high school/living at home or not) their benefits automatically get turned over to them and your name comes off the account.

Bottom line is you have access to the money at any given time, therefore its considered as household income on the Schedules, but not the means test. It sucks, but thats the way it works unfortunately.

[mom2crazies]

Bottom line is you have access to the money at any given time, therefore its considered as household income on the Schedules, but not the means test. It sucks, but thats the way it works unfortunately.

But, really I don't. It can't be used as disposable income when it comes to how I manage it. It has to be used as expenses for the children. Which is why you have to report it and show that you used it for them or saved it in their names. In fact, if I save too much, I can get in trouble because it's not being used as their support. So, if it's included in a debt repayment plan...it's really not being used for their support. Especially, since the house that we foreclosed on was foreclosed on BEFORE they started receiving benefits. So, they never lived in that house.