When to file and what can we expect to repay????

[UpACreek2010]

First we want so say thank you in advance for any HELP in guiding us through filing a Chapter 13. I've read many posts on the forum and understand many folks are in really bad shape, our our situation is of our own doing, not outside circumstances like many on this forum.
We are in the process of preparing to file for Chapter 13. Below is our income and general expenses.
1: Annual Gross Income is 125k Net monthly 8k. This income is based on annual 93k + 20% Shift differential, that I have been receiving for 21/2 years that is employer elective.
2: Unsecured CC debit 65K, 2000 per month (this is the part killing us)
3: 3000 last month, on Auto (car painted)
4: 1000 last month on new Tires
5: 2525 per month Child Support
6: 2000 per month in house payment
7: 700 per month in car payments
8: 175 per month car insurance
9: 900 per month in Utilities, Phone, etc
10: 800 per month in Food, gas, tolls
11: 175 per month Car insurance
11: 800 per year (Due Now)Home owners assoc

We understand we put ourselves into this position and would appreciate some advice/suggestions getting out of the very deep hole we have put ourselves in.
From what I've read on the net, we should wait for to file for 90 days due to the 4k expenses we had last month.
What would we realistically expect to have to repay over the 5 year period?

[jmac]

Hope you have a good record of paying child support.....I pay 400 alimony which i just started paying after becoming seperated and the trustee is not buying it at all.

[UpACreek2010]

Hope you have a good record of paying child support.....I pay 400 alimony which i just started paying after becoming seperated and the trustee is not buying it at all.

It is court ordered. I am paying for three Children one from my first marriage of 1325 (write a check) and 1200 from the second (garnished)

[enginegirl]

Have you done the means test yet?? Also look at what is allowed for your monthly expenses such as food, gas and utilities.... your look quite high!
here is the means test

http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/means-test/

and here is the link to IRS allowances http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa...anstesting.htm
this will help you figure allowable expenses... also I do not believe the trustee will have any issue with your monthly child support payments as they are court ordered
run all of you numbers through and should give you a good idea of your expected payment. Also there is new case law that came out a few months ago called the "the lanning law" this allows for a look forward as opposed to the look back... the best thing right now is to consult with a couple of different BK lawyers in you area..

good luck to you!

[jmac]

Well not much they can say about that, mine is not court ordered and the trustee isn't to happy with it.

[jetsfan2010]

are you looking to keep the cars and house in the BK?

[UpACreek2010]

EngineGirl,
Thank you so much for the links. I did the means teat and know I do not qualify for a Chapter 7. I looked at the IRS web site and the food and other expenses are in range. I didn't see where to calculate out the payment for the CC companies though, maybe I missed it? I would think with the house, car payments, car insurance, child support etc adding up to $7275 per month not counting CC payments these payments can't change. We are current on bills, but dying a slow death.

[UpACreek2010]

are you looking to keep the cars and house in the BK?

Yes, from what I've read a Chapter 13 will allow us to do that.

[UpACreek2010]

Well not much they can say about that, mine is not court ordered and the trustee isn't to happy with it.

JMAC
Good luck with your situation.

[momofthree]

You don't list the credit cards. Your plan payment is based off of your dmi and (assuming you don't have any non-exempt assets, past-due taxes, or mortgage arrears), that money will then be distributed amongst your credit cards.

Your utilities appear to be extraordinarily high. However, you are missing several expenses as well: clothing, out-of-pocket medical, home maintenance, & car maintenance.

[Okieblue]

Did you input all of your income and taxes in to the means test? It will auto fill some expenses, you put in your car payment info, size of household, etc. At the end, it will give you a figure of how much disposable monthly income you have left over to fund a chapter 13. When I do ours, it comes up with less than $300, but using our actual expenses, we have a DMI of $400-800. And yes, if you charged $4K for tires, etc, you should prolly make payments on those cards and wait to file so you can avoid the whole fraudulant use thing.

[enginegirl]

EngineGirl,
Thank you so much for the links. I did the means teat and know I do not qualify for a Chapter 7. I looked at the IRS web site and the food and other expenses are in range. I didn't see where to calculate out the payment for the CC companies though, maybe I missed it? I would think with the house, car payments, car insurance, child support etc adding up to $7275 per month not counting CC payments these payments can't change. We are current on bills, but dying a slow death.

you are very welcome! You need to compete the means test WITHOUT using the cc payments... these are not figured into your disposable monthly income (DMI) as these will all be in the 13 as unsecured creditors. at the end of the test the amount of your DMI/estimated payback will be on the top right hand side of the page... (just scroll up you will see it in a colored box).

Your rough numbers based on above info:

Your average monthly income is $8000. you have expenses totaling $ 7275 per month. That would leave you with $ 725 at the end of each month to pay into a hypothetical, five-year Chapter 13 bankruptcy plan, which would pay your unsecured creditors $ 43,500 over the next five years.

So if you Owe $120,000 you would be paying back approx 36% of your debt and after 60 months of payments you are free and clear... do bear in mind that if you are not in a 100% payback plan the trustee will more than likely require you to hand over all pay rises, bonuses, tax refunds etc for the duration of you plan.
As far as who gets what this is usually decided by the Trustee, typically, each creditor gets a percentage of amount payed in..
You should probably go for an evaluation with an Attorney, he/she should be able to clarify. Interview a few and use the one you feel most comfortable with as he/she will be your advocate in front of the trustee and judge.

I know it is all super confusing and stressful.. (I am wide awake at 3:30am!)
I hope this makes sense!

If you decide to file, read through posts regarding pre-planning... I really wish I had!!

I hope you find your paddle soon!

best of luck in whatever you decide

[jetsfan2010]

Lots of good advice already put in. The part regarding if you are in a 100 percent payback or not is really key. It does vary from 1 trustee to another, but from everything I have learned, the cases in which there is 100 percent payback usually fly under the radar as long as you comply payment wise.

[enginegirl]

The part regarding if you are in a 100 percent payback or not is really key. It does vary from 1 trustee to another, but from everything I have learned, the cases in which there is 100 percent payback usually fly under the radar as long as you comply payment wise.

If you are paying back 100 then you are correct.. but if you are NOT then as I mentined above do not expect to keep pay raise (more then 10%), bonus, tax refund...

[lrprn]

UpACreek2010, if you haven't yet please set up free initial consultation appointments with at least 3-4 experienced bk lawyers in your area who frequently file Ch 13s as soon as possible.

You are very fortunate to be in Texas which is one of the most bk-friendly states to debtors. However, your situation is complex enough that you need expert advice to make sound financial decisions about which chapter you may or may not qualify to file. This isn't the time to be guessing or getting advice from well-meaning but non-lawyer strangers on the internet which may or may not be correct for your specific financial situation in your state.

Keep studying how Ch 7 and Ch 13 work, then meet with those experienced bk attorneys. Write down your questions ahead of time and write down what they tell you during the appointments.

Keep in mind that just because you think you can't file Ch 7 doesn't mean it's a given that you can't. Your family deserves to make the best of your bad financial situation without guesses and assumptions being made. Set up those appointments, and come back to let us know what you find out. Good luck!