Financial breakdown - Help me figure this out please

[InOverHead]

Well until yesterday i was certain i would just file BK. Now i am not so sure and wondering what other options may exist. I am not feeling too bright and could really use some help. Here is my situation:

Income: $45500

1st MTG 175K/780Mo
2nd MTG 40K/335

CC1 $9500 / 19.99
CC2 $12000 / 17.99
CC3 $7000 / 13.99
CC4 $3400 / 9.9
CC5 $2000 /13.99
CC6 $1400 / 23.99
CC7 $1000 / 21.99

Auto
Veh1 28k/614Mo / 3.17
Veh2 18k/460Mo / 3.99
Veh3 20k/380MO / 6.5
Moto 4k/84Mo / .9
Insurance is $1500 every 6 months
Med Insurance $85 every two weeks

Utilities/Water/Garbage 200MO
Cellphone 120Mo
HomePh/Internet/Cable 135MO

Food 350MO
Fuel 200MO

Dog 40MO

Misc 200MO

This is rough...might actually be missing something.

Looking at the means test i could possibly also qualify as a caregiver, even tho i do not live with Mom i do help on reg basis. Her cell phone is part of my plan. I have payed her utilities probably 8 of the past 12 months - sometimes like in the Aug HEAT is was $650. (i will really miss the credit cards) she has the $460 vehicle and usually pays between 4-500 so that may count as income for me as i have deposit records...I also added her as additional cardholder on the 3400 CC4 last year with a zero balance. I just knew she would rack it up so gave her the one with teh best interest - less than a year later it was maxed out. I just asked her to make the Min payments but unfortunatley that only happened once before. Like so many she fell on tough times and i am the only one she can turn to - I am not upset with her and hope i don't sound like it. She has helped me in the past and would now if she could. I love her so much and would do anything for her!

SO maybe a CCS? if not a BK. waht about just stopping paying the 2nd, Home is worth maybe 100k so 2nd could not foreclose. How about negotiating settlements or getting on hardship programs with individual creditors? any success with that??

I think i read someone was getting wage garnished for CC's...is that possible? In Fl.

The obvious answer is to get rid of the vehicles, i know this. Unfortunately i am having a hard time with that. I could also stop paying on everything else and commit paying the vehicles, play the lets see how long it takes to Foreclose game. I could move in with Mom - Don't want that, don't want to lose the house...ugggh. A second Job? maybe make 10-12 an hr maybe 20-30 hrs a week. I hate doing the math on that figuring how long it will take to get out of the hole. Oh...the Lotto. Yep. I lose money 2x a week on that.

[Pandora]

You're right - its going to be hard. Let's break it down: 45500K gross, so we'll say roughly $35K after taxes as net income. Broken down into 12 months = roughly $2900 take home pay a month.

Your bills (excluding credit cards) total roughly $4300 a month, take your mom's vehicle payment out of $460 and you're still at $3840 not including credit cards.

You've got some major decisions to make, like it or not - you dont have the income to support what you have/want to keep.

[InOverHead]

Pandora,

Would the money my mom Contributes be counting as income?

Thanks for all you help!

[Pandora]

InOver

is the car in your name or hers? If its in her name, then its her responsibility to pay for it when you file BK - if you co-signed for it, then you will have to declare half of its value. The only way your mom's income would be a factor would be if she lived with you and helped you pay expenses.

Unfortunately, you said you're looking at filing CH. 13 - you wont qualify for it as you are already in the red. To file just to strip your 2nd mortgage isnt feasible because in the end, you still wont be able to afford the things you have. Assuming your 1st is interest only at that payment amount - so even in the long run when it resets and comes due, you'll still be stuck.

ETA: why on earth is your mom's heating bill $650 in August? If your mom is on a fixed income or elderly, then you should look into programs to assist her.

[InOverHead]

My Check is $1443 every other week, so 26 x 1443 = 37518 I would cut down food expense to keep my stuff...i know, im pathetic but i just really like my things. anyways with say 400 or 500 from mom i am getting closer, also the 2nd would be gone, right?

[Pandora]

No - the 2nd wont be gone unless you qualify for a CH. 13 plan and are able to strip it off. In order to do that, your house must be valued at less than what you owe to the 1st mortgage - so it has to come in less than $175K.

Until you get out of the mindset of "I want" - you wont get to where you need to be, unfortunately. Your mom's money wont count, you dont live with her nor she with you.

Your net income a month is $2886 - your expenses are $3840 (taking out your mom's car payment) however if you are on the loan, you have to factor it in, so that would bring your expenses to $4300 or so. You're negative -954 to $1414 depending. There is no money for a Ch. 13 plan - there isnt enough money to keep the things you want to keep in a CH. 7 either. So you must decide what your needs are vs. your wants. Your cars are more than your mortgage payment, which is interest only from what I gather.

[InOverHead]

It's in my my name. I had two vehicles and hers broke and it wasn ot feasible to get it repaired vs the value. The easy solution was for her to take one of mine. The mistake on my part was then getting another...

I ask about her checks being counted as income for me becuase when i tried to Mod my 2nd that's what they said it would be counted as. And yes, you are absolutely right one - 1st is I/O and will adjust in 2 1/2 years i do not knwo what it will be then. It may also be less this coming year because taxes are still going down. Initially i did not escrow T/I but when the 1st did a Loan mod the insisted. Actually the 1st did my a huge favor with doing the Mod, i wish it was a better loan like a 20 yr or 30 yr fixed but when i found out i was not going tohave to pay 5k at the end of the year in taxes and insurance is when i went for another vehicle.

[Pandora]

I dont know why they'd include your mom's car payment to you as income when you did your mod - but FWIW, that should not apply in BK - its in your name, so you're responsible for it and its on your income that a BK is based. Now, with that being said I missed the part about you having roomates - that money will be counted; whether its a monthly amount (rent) or their yearly salary... I'm not certain, but it will count.

Does your monthly income above include the rent you receive? If not - add it up and do it again (Gross minus payroll deductions = Net minus expenses).

[InOverHead]

Thing is when the 1st did the mod they said this only works if the 2nd participates. The 2nd said they would then i got this HUGE run around and never did. I found out i can get it stripped by googling and that what started my whol BK thought process - i wanted to get back at them for lying!

I realize teh CC debts could justify a BK as well, and i don't mind paying them. It's just the 2nd i don't want to pay!

Home is maybe 100k value...

[InOverHead]

2nd never did Mod - they said they would. Then Didnt.

[Pandora]

InOver..

hun (hugs ya for a sec) I dont know what else to tell you, but even if you stopped paying your 2nd mortgage - you still cant afford the things you have that you owe money on. You must get your total expenses down to less than your take home pay a month - and all necessities (needs) must be met before wants. I'm actually surprised you've been able to make all the payments thus far because I didnt even include the credit card payments in the above figures.

You're broke.

[FishersMike]

Well I could be wrong but I was under the impression that he would be able to claim money is mom is paying as per the 22C it reads the following on Line 7:

Any amounts paid by another person or entity, on a regular basis, for the household
expenses of the debtor or the debtor’s dependents, including child support paid for that
purpose. Do not include alimony or separate maintenance payments or amounts paid by the
debtor’s spouse.

I know this is where I included my roommates but he should be able to include his mother's regular payments to him along with his roommates. And since his house is only worth $100k and first mortgage is $175k he would be able to strip the 2nd as long as he can get above the number to qualify for a Chapter 13.

[Pandora]

Well I could be wrong but I was under the impression that he would be able to claim money is mom is paying as per the 22C it reads the following on Line 7:

Any amounts paid by another person or entity, on a regular basis, for the household
expenses of the debtor or the debtor’s dependents, including child support paid for that
purpose. Do not include alimony or separate maintenance payments or amounts paid by the
debtor’s spouse.

I know this is where I included my roommates but he should be able to include his mother's regular payments to him along with his roommates. And since his house is only worth $100k and first mortgage is $175k he would be able to strip the 2nd as long as he can get above the number to qualify for a Chapter 13.

I was under the impression to include income the way you're speaking - it had to be from a person who lived with you on premesis - not that someone is giving you monies to pay for an item financed in your name. As I stated above, I'm not sure how it would work in this instance (mom) because the car isnt in mom's name - its in the OP's name. ??

Even with stripping the 2nd mortgage, it would be hard pressed to fund a 13 plan unless other secured items were let go, like vehicles. OP is currently paying $1538 a month in vehicles alone - and I'm pretty sure given his mom's car is in his name (he financed it, she just gives him the money to pay it) - it will still count against him unless the mom can purchase the car outright, getting it into her name and financing. So removing mom's payment, it would still be $1078 in vehicle payments (I actually missed the motorcycle in my above number runs) - nearly half of the monthly income received. Throw in the 1st mortgage and other expenses (except credit cards and 2nd mortgage) and that's another $2743 - making the total thus far $3821. Again its negative by nearly $1K a month.

There is no way that I can see by running all the numbers the OP listed to fund a Ch. 13. Even a Ch. 7 will be touchy unless he/she let everything go (house, cards, credit cards) - it totals $2530 with the numbers posted and that doesnt include car insurance, a car payment, or rent for a house. Keeping even 1 vehicle (lowest one) adds $380 to the $2530, making it within a $50-60 range of net take home pay - and there is still no money left for car insurance or a place to live.

I dont know what the answer is in the OP's situation, I just ran the numbers that were posted in every way I knew to do it.

Anyone else have any suggestions?



Did I miss the part about the OP having roommates - I didnt see that anywhere? If I missed that, my bad .

[InOverHead]

hun (hugs ya for a sec)

You're broke.

Thanks Pandora...I really needed one! Yeah I am broke. Reality Bites

Well I could be wrong but I was under the impression that he would be able to claim money is mom is paying as per the 22C it reads the following on Line 7:

Any amounts paid by another person or entity, on a regular basis, for the household
expenses of the debtor or the debtor’s dependents, including child support paid for that
purpose. Do not include alimony or separate maintenance payments or amounts paid by the
debtor’s spouse.

I know this is where I included my roommates but he should be able to include his mother's regular payments to him along with his roommates. And since his house is only worth $100k and first mortgage is $175k he would be able to strip the 2nd as long as he can get above the number to qualify for a Chapter 13.

Valuable info FishersMike...Many Thanks!

Ummm i do not have any roomates to help make up the income. Although i am not opposed to the idea if absolutely necessary, i think first choice would be find a part time job over giving up the privacy. Pandora brought up a good point about being surprised i have made it this long, I realize that my situation looks crazy, especially considering the 1st Mtg resets in a few years and then principle will also be added to the payment. My thinking was by that time i would have my Charger paid off as well as My Mom's SUV. That's an extra $600 minimum to make up for whatever increases.

I have also learned a few tricks to make extra money. I am on all the new vehicle test drive lists...$50 here or there for twenty minutes or less adds up over the year. Also get in on as many bank sign up bonuses as possible, i have 5 accounts (each with only 50-75 in them) but meet whatver requirements at the time to get the bonus - close them out and wait for the next offer. Have done focus groups which pay $100-125, clip coupons, made a few bucks using Bing and now whichever c/b pays out the highest. This is obviously not anything major but no doubt helps make ends meet. I always try to get payouts in prepaid credit cards so i don't have to deposit into the bank - Just wish i knew more ways to make some extra dollars!

[Pandora]

My thinking was by that time i would have my Charger paid off ....

*gasping for air* Good God Man! Dont let the Charger go! Are you raving mad?! LOL Mopar all the way (pppsstt..hubby has a 69 Charger ) Anything for the Charger.... hee hee

Okay, that was a joke to make you smile in this crappy situation - hope I did!