Investment property Question.....

[CoBelle]

In 2007 I invested in a development in Costa Rica owned by a friend of mine who is a Realtor and a developer. The property is in Costa Rica. Initially I used my home as collateral, but when ex objected I redid the deal and used the land as security for the loan. I've been paying ever since.

But everyone and the trustee said no...you can't keep the property because it produces no income. So: while in 13, should I have just surrendered it to the seller/lender on the trustee's say so? Or did i have to make a motion of some sort to go ahead and surrender it?

Ok....now everyone knows that my BK was dismissed last Wednesday because the judge decided for a pretty flimsy reason, that the secured debt was unsecured which put me over the limit . Once dismissed, there was no stay.

So, since there was no stay, is it possible that I surrendered the land in exvchange for the seller not suing me for the deficiency according to the DOT which is under Costa Rican law not us law and then I refiled the 13?

Of course I didn't refile; instead I filed a new7, which isn't really going to help me.
But I thought I'd pose the question to see if it would have had a chance.


Thanks for your thoughts.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Being out of our Country, you have two laws. This is something that I personally could not answer nor I doubt many here could either. Is the mortgage holder in the U.S.? If so, in C7 you could give it over as their collateral and walk from there. About your 13 or 7 helping you, I'm confused. What is it that would help you and what are you wishing? 'Hub

[CoBelle]

hi Angelina....no this is a question that arose because I kinda got screwed out of my 13. The investment prop is a legit secuirity for a loan but the 13 judge ruled it iunsecured based on Us rules that it wasn't perfected. So my mind started working in a devious way I suspect .

If I was no longer in my 13, then the lender and I could do whatever we wanted (to answer your ?, the loan was made here, recorded there because the land that was the collateral was there ) . I wasn't in bk from Oct 20 until Oct 25.

I broadened the time period to include while I was in 13 because the trustee told me I couldn't get my plan confirmed with payments going to the investment property.
SO, since the judge found the loan UNsecured and dismissed my case because of it, I thought I'd ask if I could just surrender it and then refile the 13.

My 13 plan hinged on keeping the house by buying out ex's share (such right granted by the fam law court). The house woudl provide income (rental apt) and after I fixed it up i could sell it and pay off all my creditors. It was a good plan and a workable one. But ex got his way as it seems he always does.

My question was mostly conjecture because I had to file a 7 to keep a stay in effect. I guess i was exploring whether I could have refiled the 13 instead , after 'surrendering' the property to the seller/lender.

[AngelinaCatHub]

You have a time limit before a refile but you could petition to have the 13 reestablished. Perhaps you could "perfect" the property by also recording it here in the county you got the loan it. I'm not up on this kind of law.

At this point, and since the ex is non cooperative would it be better just to follow the 7 and get a fresh start? Not knowing your details I'm only grasping at straws upon your behalf. 'hub

[Cristo]

CoBelle,

I read your other thread and I don't know how you are still doing it. I heard the Tom Petty Song "I won't back down" on the radio this morning and I thought of you.

Well I won't back down
No I won't back down
You can stand me up at the gates of hell
But I won't back down

No I'll stand my ground, won't be turned around
And I'll keep this world from draggin me down
gonna stand my ground
... and I won't back down

I didn't want to post the whole thing, but you get the picture.

I don't know why you could not do some sort of "deed in lieu" on the investment property. One of the others would know better than me. But...most people want to keep their secured property since it will lower their DMI. This is not your objective. If you did that would you then have too much DMI for the ch 7 and be forced back into 13 land? When I went for my 341 the trustee was already asking for a receipt that I had surrendered my 2nd car, since I had indicated that I wanted to surrender the car in the bk (only because I knew that keeping it would not fly with the court here and I had no real equity in it). My lawyer objected at the time to surrendering before my confirmation since we did not know if the cram down on my jaguar would be granted, and I still have the car, but I am preparing to get rid of it now since the cram down was granted.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that yes, I think in a 13 if you know you have to surrender then you can do it right away without a motion or anything. On the other hand, what if they withdrew their claim? would that work? Could you then get an appeal of your dismissal? There has got to be a way to make this work! My brain is working overtime for you but I'm afraid I don't know enough about the procedure to say anything for sure.

I know you can make it through. When you do we will be singing a new song.....Celebrate! by Kool and the Gang maybe? Hang in there!

[CoBelle]

Since my income went from $7500 to $1500 in August, I know I wouldn't have any trouble re income in either a 7 or a 13...In fact I had to promise to use retirement funds in the 13 as ex said I couldn't fund a 13 and wanted it dismissed.

If I get my alimony extended (wouldn't be until January earliest) then I guess it could play a part...but isn't a 7 what you have on the day you filed?

A 7 doesn't do me much good because I have very little dischargeable debt....unless I get the ex's judgment liens avoided. But he'll say, in a 7, that it is divorce debt so not dischargeable. (it is dischargeable in a 13).

As it is now, I probably only have a 30 day stay. Will the judge entend it? I don't know, but i did file the motion. Will ex file a relief from stay? Probably already has, but i 'm too overwhelmed to even look.

I've only paid $1 for the filing fee so far and $30 for the course cert with the balance due by Nov 4....a good lawyer might plead that I had no legal advice and didn't know wth I was doing and maybe refile the 13 instead....................but it is a long shot and probably wouldn't fly. My friend was willing to do whatever worked out best with the trustee: take back the land, give me a reprieve on paying interest for 6 months...but my attorney never pursued any talks with the trustee.

I'm just kinda tired of it all.But I draw strenght from your well wishes, so please know that I appreciate every kind word.

No lawyer has been able to answer whether I can appeal or file a mnoiton for reconsideration for the 13 dismissal after filing a new Chapter 7. It probably wouldn't do much good, but I tend to like to try evrything. In this case, becasue I have the same judge...I wouldn't appeal....but I wouldn't mind filing a mmotion for reconsideration if it's within the rules. I'd have to get it filed within the week tho.

I called five attorneys rec'd by an attorney friend....no one calls back.

A