My 2 AM question.

[dukedog]

This crap is going to drive me nuts. I am too much of a control freak not to know how to fix everything.

Income 6507.00
House 1881.00
Truck 598.00
CC 1280.00
Living expenses- $2000??


Total CC Debt- $38000

With the attorneys I have talked to, they are split on chapter 7. One says yes, the other no.

Can I even qualify for Chapter 13? One Bonehead told me I make too much for a 7 and not enough to pay a 13 plan. Told me I was screwed.

Now, if I turn over the truck and pay a 100% plan of the $38000 cc debt, that would be $633 a month plus what ever fees I have right?

If I so happen to get a 100% repayment plan, will I have to pay more to trustee if I have an increase in income? (just got to ask..)

Will I be able to turn over my truck without having to pay the negative equity, or will I have to work the negative equity into my plan?

I have one vehicle that is paid off; can I protect that as if I would in Chapter 7 using unused homestead exemption?

Sorry for all the questions, my mind is just running circles trying to fix this problem.

Thanks!!!

[ccsjoe]

duke....my friend...you and I are similar control freaks. If so, you must do the forms yourself and come up with your own numbers right?

First, go here http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/nolo/ and take the online means test to see whther you have a presumption of abuse in filing for 7.

Second, go here http://www.uscourts.gov/FormsAndFees...ptcyForms.aspx and download from Part I-Official Forms forms number B6I and B6J.

They're self explanatory, but they all have quirks and specifics that lots of us here can help you with. I'll be glad to even post for you a summary of my numbers and categories so you can see what goes included where.

Once you fill I and J you will get a DMI (Disposable Monthly Income). This is the magic figure that, if above 150 or so, can get you pushed into a CH13. It will definitely get you pushed into a 13 if over 180.

Your numbers as you posted above are too generic, that's why I'm suggesting you do this. It'll also give you some more control related comfort.

How many people in your household? What state? Filing single BK or joint? Etc.

[dukedog]

Yea, I've got about three sets of numbers,three am I wasn't digging for them.

I guess my main questions is paying 100/ back in payment plan and giving back the truck with negative equity. If I have a surplus of 1200 a month after truck surrender and 100 / payment will they make me pay more or deny me?

[dukedog]

Family of four in GA. I know people are looking at these figures and wondering why I'm here, bit I was able to support my level of income untill housing crash and the great one took command.

[momofthree]

Definitely fill out a means test and an I & J. Do not include credit card payments or student loan payments.

Couple things regarding the truck:

1. If you have had the loan for at least 910 days (approx 2.5 years), you can "cram down" the loan amount to fair market value, and the deficiency will become unsecured debt and paid at the same rate as the rest of your unsecured creditors. However, if you end up in a 100% payback, you will end up paying back the deficiency as well.

2. If you choose to surrender the truck, you cannot count the truck payment on your schedule J. That will free up $598/mo. Again, if you are in a 100% payback plan, you will end up paying all of the deficiency balance anyway.

3. You need a reliable vehicle going into the ch.13 that will get you thru 5 years without needing repairs. If you are going to surrender the truck, you need to buy a new car now, before filing. This will also serve to lower your dmi going into the ch.13. If your wife also needs a reliable vehicle, buy 2 new cars (with reasonable payments under $496/mo each). These are allowable expenses and will just mean that you pay less towards your unsecured creditors.

With a family of 4 (and the info you've posted), your budget will probably be similar to:

$1881 mortgage
$500 utilities (average IRS standard for GA, your county will have a specific #)
$100 home maintenance
$1371 IRS standard expense for food/clothing/personal care/etc. (can be viewed here: http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa..._standards.htm)
$240 medical/dental out-of-pocket
$496 car
$496 car #2
$478 vehicle operating expenses for 2 cars (gas & maintenance)
$150 (estimate) car insurance
$50 (estimate) life insurance (if not provided thru employer)
$75 recreation
$50 (estimate) kids schooling expenses
$5887 total monthly expenses (estimate)

DMI = $620/mo

$62 maximum trustee fee
$50ish attorney fees
$508 to unsecureds = $30480 over 60 months.

Possibly less if you can come up with more allowable expenses (for example, higher commuting costs, medical expenses, or utilities expenses), your attorney will be your best resource for what will be allowed in your district....

[dukedog]

Yea, one attorney told me I could not Afford the required chapter 13 without surrender of the truck. I actually just traded for my truck this year to lower payments. I have an opportunity to purchase a $9000 dollar vehicle for $3000. It would be nice to have no car loans. Just a house note and $700 trustee payment.

[tobee43]

duke...just as long as you are certain about your future income...although, i'm certain if you go chapter 13 with a % payout and there are income changes something can be done....

momo??? right?

[momofthree]

Yea, one attorney told me I could not Afford the required chapter 13 without surrender of the truck. I actually just traded for my truck this year to lower payments. I have an opportunity to purchase a $9000 dollar vehicle for $3000. It would be nice to have no car loans. Just a house note and $700 trustee payment.

Unfortunately for you, with no car loans, your dmi would skyrocket and you would have a trustee payment of closer to $1600 a month. However, your bankruptcy would be paid off within about 30 months ($38k unsecured + $10k deficiency balance on truck).

And if your vehicle ends up needing repairs during your plan, you would be screwed.

If it were me, the decision would be easily made: 2 new cars & total payout of $30k to unsecureds OR 2 older cars and payout of $48k to unsecureds. Either way, you exit the plan with no car payment and no credit card debt.

[dukedog]

Unfortunately for you, with no car loans, your dmi would skyrocket and you would have a trustee payment of closer to $1600 a month. However, your bankruptcy would be paid off within about 30 months ($38k unsecured + $10k deficiency balance on truck).

And if your vehicle ends up needing repairs during your plan, you would be screwed.

If it were me, the decision would be easily made: 2 new cars & total payout of $30k to unsecureds OR 2 older cars and payout of $48k to unsecureds. Either way, you exit the plan with no car payment and no credit card debt.

1-Am I not required to go to a 60 month plan because I am over median for GA?


2-If I did have the worst case senerio of having to pay a 100% payback plan, then in theory, my payments will never go up due to income?

3-My credit is now trashed debt to income is trashed as well and have a $10,000 undervalue in truck.

Sorry for all the questions, I just want to be well educated on all my options.

[ccsjoe]

duke, whereas I admittedly do know much more about CH7 than 13, I do know this. If you are in a 100% payback plan at 60 months and your income increases, your monthly payment amount will increase, however the number of months left in the plan will decrease accordingly. Law says ALL your available DMI must go into the payment plan until either 100% is paid back or 60 months have transpired, whichever occurs earlier.

[catleg]

Is that gross income before taxes or your take home pay?
Do you contribute to a 401k? Do you have any 401k loans?
Those items are major fudge factors that work in a debtors favor in a chapter 13.