VERY UNHAPPY With Plan Modification

[newbie2]

Can you point to this in the bankruptcy code? Or can an attorney chime in here? How can you be held liable for a debt that was included in the bk?

Here is a paragraph from the Federal BK website. (I will provide the link below): "Debts not discharged in chapter 13 include certain long term obligations (such as a home mortgage), debts for alimony or child support, certain taxes, debts for most government funded or guaranteed educational loans or benefit overpayments, debts arising from death or personal injury caused by driving while intoxicated or under the influence of drugs, and debts for restitution or a criminal fine included in a sentence on the debtor's conviction of a crime."

This is why I stated the home mortgage has to be addressed within the plan, not after a discharge.

Also see: http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourt...Chapter13.aspx

[momofthree]

Here is a paragraph from the Federal BK website. (I will provide the link below): "Debts not discharged in chapter 13 include certain long term obligations (such as a home mortgage), debts for alimony or child support, certain taxes, debts for most government funded or guaranteed educational loans or benefit overpayments, debts arising from death or personal injury caused by driving while intoxicated or under the influence of drugs, and debts for restitution or a criminal fine included in a sentence on the debtor's conviction of a crime."

This is why I stated the home mortgage has to be addressed within the plan, not after a discharge.

Also see: http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourt...Chapter13.aspx

I read that, but interpreted it as meaning that if you stay in the home, you are still responsible for the mortgage attached to it. You can't keep the house and then not pay the mortgage. That I have no problem with. Why is it (if what you state is correct) that in a ch.7 you can discharge a deficiency balance no matter when you walk away--even 10-20 years down the line, why would it be different in a ch.13?

Maybe I should start a new thread so that an attorney will see this and chime in....I don't expect this to ever happen, but I can't tell the future, and I will be pissed as hell if I have to re-file bk years down the line because of this weird ch.13 loophole that doesn't exist if you file ch.7. I mean, a ch.13 discharges your personal liability in a 2nd mortgage, doesn't it? Why not a first?

[Pandora]

I know that in MY bk petition, the unsecured portion of my mortgage is listed as unsecured and counted towards the unsecured debt limit. Of course, since we're keeping the house, it's not included in the list of unsecured creditors to be paid (which are being paid at 0% anyway, so it's a non-issue for me).

Mom - you stripped your 2nd - it should be included somewhere in your plan under unsecured creditors to be paid... it has to be - even if they are getting 0 - they filed a claim. If its not - then the real possibility that the strip was not done either through AP or motion - is very real. You should see somewhere on your BK papers (on PACER and even 13DataCenter) your 2nd mortgage and the status of "Lien Avoided" (13DataCenter) and on PACER it should say "Undersecured- Lien Avoided" as well as whatever filings you had to do to strip it, should be countered on PACER. Ours is by AP - it shows another case number along with our BK case number - if we click on it, it is our 2nd mortgage case...separate but equal to our BK case - and shows every step that has been taken to get the strip. As of September it shows "AP CLOSED - LIEN STRIPPED UPON COMPLETION OF PLAN". It is still listed as of today as a Secured Creditor - it will not go as unsecured until next week when we are to be confirmed (according to lawyer and trustee); it will not be stripped until completion of the plan, however it will show up irregardless as an unsecured creditor.

I think you and I discussed this before and you said your lawyer was supposed to file paperwork within 6 months after your confirmation. Everything I've read..everything I've seen in BK code says you cannot be confirmed unless and until the 2nd is 100% authorized to be stripped. It must show somewhere in your paperwork...and you should have received a copy of the discharge notice from your Trustee and lawyer - whether via AP or motion.


Here is a copy of what a Motion looks like - an AP is quite different, but kind of similar. I hope you received this at some point in time Mom

http://www.ch13tampa.com/documents/LienStrippingasof10-7-9.pdf

[momofthree]

Mom - you stripped your 2nd - it should be included somewhere in your plan under unsecured creditors to be paid... it has to be - even if they are getting 0 - they filed a claim. If its not - then the real possibility that the strip was not done either through AP or motion - is very real. You should see somewhere on your BK papers (on PACER and even 13DataCenter) your 2nd mortgage and the status of "Lien Avoided" (13DataCenter) and on PACER it should say "Undersecured- Lien Avoided" as well as whatever filings you had to do to strip it, should be countered on PACER. Ours is by AP - it shows another case number along with our BK case number - if we click on it, it is our 2nd mortgage case...separate but equal to our BK case - and shows every step that has been taken to get the strip. As of September it shows "AP CLOSED - LIEN STRIPPED UPON COMPLETION OF PLAN". It is still listed as of today as a Secured Creditor - it will not go as unsecured until next week when we are to be confirmed (according to lawyer and trustee); it will not be stripped until completion of the plan, however it will show up irregardless as an unsecured creditor.

I think you and I discussed this before and you said your lawyer was supposed to file paperwork within 6 months after your confirmation. Everything I've read..everything I've seen in BK code says you cannot be confirmed unless and until the 2nd is 100% authorized to be stripped. It must show somewhere in your paperwork...and you should have received a copy of the discharge notice from your Trustee and lawyer - whether via AP or motion.


Here is a copy of what a Motion looks like - an AP is quite different, but kind of similar. I hope you received this at some point in time Mom

http://www.ch13tampa.com/documents/L...asof10-7-9.pdf

I'm not talking about the lien strip. I'm referencing the unsecured portion of my FIRST mortgage is listed as unsecured and counted towards my unsecured limit on my petition. It lists my first mortgage with "unsecured portion" of $16984. Since we're planning to pay back our first mortgage 100% (and outside the plan), that unsecured portion is not listed anywhere in my list of creditors to be paid, and I wouldn't expect it to be. However, it just seems odd that it's listed as unsecured, and then, in the unlikely event that we lose our home down the line, we could still be responsible for it, depending on where the market is at that time.

[Pandora]

I'm not talking about the lien strip. I'm referencing the unsecured portion of my FIRST mortgage is listed as unsecured and counted towards my unsecured limit on my petition. It lists my first mortgage with "unsecured portion" of $16984. Since we're planning to pay back our first mortgage 100% (and outside the plan), that unsecured portion is not listed anywhere in my list of creditors to be paid, and I wouldn't expect it to be. However, it just seems odd that it's listed as unsecured, and then, in the unlikely event that we lose our home down the line, we could still be responsible for it, depending on where the market is at that time.

Ahhh... okay *whew!* thought you were talking about your 2nd, sorry Yeah that is odd - ours doesnt list the difference of value from what is owed to what the house is worth on the 1st mortgage as unsecured ??? Wonder why yours does..?

[unclerico]

From what I can tell, since I am in a 13 BK and this my only FHA mortgage that I've had, it is unlikely that I will have a deficiency judgment.