IRS Standards vs. Bankruptcy standards - is there a difference?

[cspa522]

I've been hunting around trying to find the IRS Standards that will be used to determine how much we're allowed each month for food/clothing/auto care, etc.

Is this list correct, or is there a secondary bankrutpcy list?

http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=104627,00.html

I ask because this statement is at the top of the IRS website, but I am unable to locate the "bankruptcy standards" on the Trustee site:

Disclaimer: IRS Collection Financial Standards are intended for use in calculating repayment of delinquent taxes. These Standards are effective on March 1, 2010 for purposes of federal tax administration only. Expense information for use in bankruptcy calculations can be found on the website for the U. S. Trustee Program.

[tobee43]

do you owe the IRS??? i do know someone that filed and owned the IRS 650K...and now the UST watches his every move when spending....however, i someone please correct me, if i'm wrong...it would only be applicable if you owed back IRS taxes??

[cspa522]

do you owe the IRS??? i do know someone that filed and owned the IRS 650K...and now the UST watches his every move when spending....however, i someone please correct me, if i'm wrong...it would only be applicable if you owed back IRS taxes??

No, I don't owe the IRS. But I know there are National standards for food, clothing, car maintenance, etc. depending on your family size. I'm trying to figure out what they are and I can't find a good website for them.

[cspa522]

This is the 2nd list I've found. http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa..._standards.htm

[tobee43]

National standards for food, clothing, car maintenance, etc. depending on your family size. I'm trying to figure out what they are and I can't find a good website for them.

maybe someone may have information about that site...i do not..and cannot realize how they, your district court, would consider that...the cost of living varies from state to state....i.e. california...vs.....montana...for example.

i know when i figured mine out we moved and although the cost of housing is much less than where we came from the cost of food is over double.

i believe it's most important to use what you truly spend on food, utlilities etc. because they really aren't going by an average....they are going by what is cost you and yours to live where you live. another example was our utilities used to be over 1500 monthly...now because we moved they are 800...phone, ele...gas, sewer, water...etc. and that is the number we could prove if needed at the time of our 341.

[tobee43]

Collection Financial Standards for Food, Clothing and Other Items. Due to their unique geographic circumstances and higher cost of living, separate standards have been established for Alaska and Hawaii .

http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa..._standards.htm

do you live in alaska or hawaii.....and it clearly states there aoubt the geographic locations as being a factor in determing living cost.

[cspa522]

I live in Missouri.

[tobee43]

do you have to file under state in MO...or do you have a choice of either state or federal??....either way...i would not concern yourself about the costs of what someone says you should feed your family on. i actually went too low...but it didn't really make that much of a difference.

[LadyInTheRed]

Here are the National Standards for BK filings after March 15, 2010. http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa..._standards.htm

These are the standards used for the means test. You don't necessarily have to use them on your schedule J, but that will depend on your district. Ask your attorney. In any case, they are a good guide. My schedule J exceeded the standards and my plan was confirmed without question.

[tobee43]

Ask your attorney. In any case, they are a good guide. My schedule J exceeded the standards and my plan was confirmed without question

.

exactly what i would do as well. as ladyinred pointed out, their schedule j exceeded the "standards" and their plan was confirmed.

i understand you want to make no mistakes...it's difficult.

[HHM]

Keep in mind, IRS standards are only used in BK for the means test. So in that respect, IRS standards are the same as BK standards. However, with BK, you have more flexibility in chapter 13 than IRS standards.

[cspa522]

Now, say the IRS Standard for food for a family of four is $700 but I figure we only spend $500. Can I go all the way up to the standard when I file and say we really spend $700? Is it like when you file your income taxes each year, and there's a limit to the deductions you can make? As long as you don't go over whatever the limit is, they won't check it?

Not trying to be untruthful, I just want to get the most out of the plan as possible, to save for emergencies.

[cspa522]

Here are the National Standards for BK filings after March 15, 2010. http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa..._standards.htm

These are the standards used for the means test. You don't necessarily have to use them on your schedule J, but that will depend on your district. Ask your attorney. In any case, they are a good guide. My schedule J exceeded the standards and my plan was confirmed without question.

Which set of numbers are used? The ones at the top (Collection Financial Standards for Food, Clothing and Other Items) or the ones at the bottom (Bankruptcy Allowable Living Expenses - National Standards)?

I'm assuming it's the bankruptcy ones.

[tobee43]

absolutely, i would...i only did 400 for food and ended up living in an area that that SAME food cost 800! so if it's in line, i can't see any reason not to use it.

we just kept honest as we could....i didn't even list for clothing at all. we still met the means test.

[momofthree]

Lady's link has the correct info. And if you're also wanting transportation, housing, etc standards, you can find them here: http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa...anstesting.htm