Just filed in GA on 8/6 with paperwork due

[GA13]

Just filed on 8/6 with paperwork due like income and the payment plan

sent all that in today and the same day in the mail was a payment plan by the trustee due now!
I have only made one filing payment of the 4 I owe and already they came up with a payment 200% more then I mailed in as my plan

I had 14 days to file these why would they do this?
I'm calling them tomorrow but still I so not have the payment they propose

also our income is about 50% under the mean IRS income

we have 0 disposable income

this whole thing is screwy!

I want to pay something back and filed to do so but not at what the trustee seemed to decide right away without giving me the legal time to get the paper work in.

What in the heck did I miss here?

Why are there no instructions on how to file the darn paper work made available too, why would you need an attorney in every case? this is stupid. I felt for my 23,000 in CC debt and the fact we are so poor that we could not afford a lawyer and I want to pay back, in less then 6 months I will be graduated out of school and back to work a couple months after that.

Been out of work for 5 years

[LadyInTheRed]

I don't have an answer to your real question. Maybe somebody else can shed some light. But, I have some comments.

Why are there no instructions on how to file the darn paper work made available too, why would you need an attorney in every case?

The "instructions on how to file" are in the Bankruptcy Code, the Federal Rules of Bankruptcy Procedure and your court's local rules. You need an attorney in a Chapter 13 because, as is clear when you read any of those things, it is not a simple process. It is time consuming and very easy to make a mistake if you don't know what you are doing. It sound like you probably made a mistake in your filing.

Did you at least go for free consultations with a few BK attorneys before filing?

Why did you file a Chap 13? That may be your biggest mistake. If you are 50% under median and have no DMI, you shouldn't be in a 7. The only reason I can think of that you'd want to file a 13 is to save assets that you can't exempt. But, it doesn't sound like you can afford to save any assets. With such low income, it is probably impossible to come up with a confirmable plan.

Regardless of why the trustee prepared a plan for you, based on the little info you've provided, converting to a 7 may be your best course of action. There is at least one person here who has successfully converted a pro se Chap 13 to a 7 and received a discharge. So, I'm sure you can get some help here.

Check your local bar association to see if there are attorneys in your area who will do BK work pro bono. With your low income, you are sure to qualify for any progams that exist.

[GA13]

I want to pay back on the unsecured credit, at least some and I read all the laws and proceedures, My local court has seemed to come up with some proceedures not covered in federal law.

Also it is clearly stated in the law you can file yourself. I spent hours going over all this

You need an attorney in a Chapter 13 because, as is clear when you read any of those things, it is not a simple process.

I had 14 days from filing, the law is clear. I understand you are trying to help, but it does not answer any of my questions "Get a lawyer"

In my case it is simple

I own less then 5000 worth of personal stuff
I have interest in one car worth less then 3500
I have only unsecured CC debt
I have unsecured student loans that are not dischargable


Chapter 7 would not get rid of the student loans

Chapter 13 is a little better recovery wise

both are protection from suits and major problems like GOING TO JAIL.

[NoTomatoCan]

I think the point that Lady was trying to make is that if you are struggling on some of these issues, it might be a good idea to at least see an attorney to get some guidance. You have some statements that, on their face, seem to raise some questions. For example, you state that you have 0 disposable income, but if you have no disposable income, how can you fund a chapter 13 plan? Being able to propose a workable plan is a key element to a CH13.

It is admirable that you want to payback something via a CH13, but it doesn't seem to be the right move for your particular situation.

You probably know this, but Chapter 13 does not get rid of student loans either.

And unless you committed some type of fruad, you are not going to go to jail for not paying your unsecured credit card debt or student loans.

[LadyInTheRed]

The following still does not answer any of your questions. But, I think it contains information you need to know and some perspective. Feel free to ignore it. Maybe it will help somebody else.

Most importantly: You are not going to go to jail for being unable to pay your debt! This is a lie creditors tell people to scare them.

Yes, the law alows you to file without an attorney. That doesn't mean it's a good idea. I simply made a suggestion on how you might find some help without cost, in case you haven't explored that option. Did you at least get some free consults with BK attorneys before going this alone?

I read the same law about the 14 days. I don't know why the trustee would do what they've done. There is obviously some kind of problem here. It's possible the trustee can't count or somebody hit the wrong button somewhere. (Have you checked pacer to see if there is anything odd about the calendared dates?) It's also possible you missed something either in the law or in your initial filing.

Chapter 13 won't get rid of your student loans either. It will stop collection efforts, but with your low income the lender will probably work with you without the need to file BK.

The bottom line is that if you have no DMI, you can't propose a confirmable Chapter 13 plan. The court will probably not confirm a plan that includes an unrealistic budget. If it does, you are going to have a real tough time sticking to it.

The desire to pay back something to your creditors is admirable, but why bother? The credit card companies don't care about you. You are a number to them. They wouldn't think twice about discharging their debts if they were in trouble. If you feel so strongly about paying something to them, there is nothing to stop you from sending them money after your Chapter 7 is discharged.

[SMinGA]

I really don't understand. If you have no DMI & are at 50% of the median income w/ $23k in debt - why are you filing ch. 13? Did you have a prior ch 7, or were you trying to repay mortgage arrears?

Filing without an attorney is complicated because, well, its a serious matter with many specific requirements. The bankruptcy code/filing requirements is more than most people can understand - myself included. I'm not sure why the trustee would propose a plan for you - that is what you should work out w/ your atty. But if there is a minimum amount required of you (such as to cover mortgage arrears) what you received may be the minimum.

I agree w/ others that wanting to repay is admirable but seems misguided. Ch 7 does not forbid one from paying voluntarily after discharge.

On a bigger question - was there a reason to file now, any particular hurry? Facing foreclosure (I'm guessing no since you indicate only unsecured) or lawsuits?

[GA13]

I think the point that Lady was trying to make is that if you are struggling on some of these issues, it might be a good idea to at least see an attorney to get some guidance. You have some statements that, on their face, seem to raise some questions. For example, you state that you have 0 disposable income, but if you have no disposable income, how can you fund a chapter 13 plan? Being able to propose a workable plan is a key element to a CH13.

It is admirable that you want to payback something via a CH13, but it doesn't seem to be the right move for your particular situation.

You probably know this, but Chapter 13 does not get rid of student loans either.

And unless you committed some type of fruad, you are not going to go to jail for not paying your unsecured credit card debt or student loans.

You do not have to pay back Unsecured debt at all in a 13, I want to pay back some.

Its complicated for me

I went back to school 5 years ago, had a loan for 3 years but Sallie Mae stopped lending to Caribbean medical schools, all but 3

I'm not at one of the three, got behind in CC payments, to the point my wife did not make enough to pay it, relative is paying tuition only there is no money to help pay bills,

I'm 175k in debt for Student loans deferred

I will graduate medical school in Jan 2011

I will start work again in July 2011

I will then have the money to pay till then we will struggle to pay

it sucks

I do not have any money, hardly enough to file

the question was

can the trustee just make up a plan when I still had 5 days to turn mine in?

( which I did)

Seems like the law was not followed to me.

[SMinGA]

Have never heard of the trustee making up a plan. Have only heard of negotiating the plan submitted by the atty.

While its true there is no requirement to pay back a certain level of unsecured debt in a 13, one must commit all DMI & make some sort of regular payment. And part of all paid in goes to the trustee. If you manage to confirm a plan, very little will go to your creditors. Student loans will remain after the plan.

And if you do go into a plan now, your plan payment will likely increase in ~1 year when you start working so that you'll ultimately pay back your unsecured in full plus pay the trustee. (My guess.) Though you'd be able to do a 36 mo since you're under median now.

Question: did you originally complete & file schedules I & J. If so, could this be what the trustee's plan was based on?

[NoTomatoCan]

I guess it is difficult to answer your question without having more information. You can still submit your plan to the trustee, and will ultimately need to do so anyway. Hard to say why the trustee did what they did without knowing more.

I am still confused by your desire to do a CH13. In another post you stated you did a CH7 in the 1990s. You gain nothing by doing a CH13. Just doesn't make a ton of sense from a practical perspective. You don't seem to have DMI to fund a plan, and don't get any benefit from filing a CH13, so why go through the hassle?

[GA13]

Yes I did a CH7 in the 90's Discharged and off the Credit reports, all of them, its been 16 years

a Chapter 13 falls off the credit report in 7 years not 10

also I have no problem with the idea of paying back

but in my case it will not be 100% no matter what

it will be 3 years

no problem with the trustee adjusting the payments due to new income Ok by me.

I just Mailed my I and J today will be there tues or wed , the trustee in my area did come up with payment plan without seeing these. Amazing huh?

[SMinGA]

Very odd that the trustee did a payment plan without having your I, J, means test, etc. (And if you're under median, you would not have had to complete the budget section of the means test - just the income section.)

My next best guess? Perhaps that was filed under your case by mistake?

[GA13]

Very odd that the trustee did a payment plan without having your I, J, means test, etc. (And if you're under median, you would not have had to complete the budget section of the means test - just the income section.)

My next best guess? Perhaps that was filed under your case by mistake?

I called them this AM and they said What???? Told them that I had this Trustee payment due now and their number ( they even questioned me talking to them) So I told them the forms would be there by tomorrow and that I had set a payment ( I know the payment may get adjusted) but since we are so far under the Average income of around 50k for 2 and we are at 26k for 2 I think my case will either be approved as it stands or ( more likely) thrown out, which I will file a chapter 7 at that time. The chapter 7 is free to file at our income but I truly want to pay back something and have it discharged and off our credit report sooner. anyway maybe I'm going about this wrong?

I do not know what else to do I have two Blood sucking "Whats in your wallet" ( Never Never have them) Capital one cards. They call 9 times a day when your late and then when you talk to them they do not care, just pay. No payment plans no help just pay.

I was told to borrow money to pay them, take out a loan, no matter that I do not have a Job. I wish congress ( who gave them the money already through bail out) would force them into some kinda help plan for those of us out of work temporary, but that would make sense.

[SMinGA]

Collectors will tell you anything to get you to pay. They don't care if you steal from your mother...

I still wonder if there is simply a mistake made. I mean, if you filed on 8/6 then your first plan payment is not due until 9/5. (30 days after filing.) Though the rule may be within 30 days of filing the plan, and you do have 14 days to get the plan in. (Which could mean your payment is due 30 days from when they receive the plan, but going by 9/5 is safer.)

One other clarification: your debts will be discharged sooner in a ch. 7, since discharge is ~3 months after filing. While in ch. 13 the discharge will be after 3 years. Its the public record (filing) that stays for 7 years in ch. 13 vs. 10 years in ch. 7. Though the damage on the credit score is largest in the first ~2 years or so.