So 3 Lawyers say 13 is better then 7... Now I am more confused. toughts?

[whathehell]

Hi All,
So I finally decided to go BK, then finally decided to go and see attorneys so the work part of admitting is done. So this is my dilema now.

Lawyer #1 - If I want to get rid of the Heloc of 60K I have it will need to be 13, but she could not tell me what the judge will say I will be paying. so I say I could be paying 1K per month, she tells me she does not know and it will be up to judge.

Lawyer #2 - I did not feel that confortable with him, looked like sh does not have a lot of experience, but suggested 7 and keep paying my Heloc.

Lawyer #3 - OK this is where is gets interesting... Same says we are over the midian wish is true and the payouts could put me over 20K more.
So he paints it both ways, in 13, I get rid of Heloc and all CC debt about 120K, doing a $200.00 per month payment for 5 Years. or do a 7 get out of the cc only and keep paying the same 200 for the heloc.

He basically told me that I would pay base on the plan he presents, so teh other one tells me that is up to the Judge...

Hell I am confused here any care to chime in? Much appreciated.

[debtinohio]

#3 sounds like the ideal situation - $200/5 years is only $12000.

[HHM]

Well, it is ultimately up to the judge, but the lawyer prepares the plan initially. Until they look at real numbers and the ENTIRE situation, a good lawyer would not even ball park a figure at an initial consultation.

Any good lawyer will propose a payment that is as low as possible. The chapter 13 trustee will object, and want a higher payment (by questioning some of the claimed expenses), the final payment will be somewhere in between. In reality, a chapter 13 is mostly a negotiation. Very rarely does a judge actually make the decision. An agreeable number is usually arrived at between your lawyer and the chapter 13 trustee.

If you are over median and presumably have disposable income, I am not sure how lawyer 3 has chapter 7 as a realistic option. Certainly, in any case, chapter 7 is "possible" given the right circumstances.

[SMinGA]

#1 could not tell you a plan payment if #1 did not go over all income/expense details with you. Being an initial consultation, that is nothing alarming. They know you're shopping for an atty, their time is valuable and perhaps they do not invest hours into your case before you hire them?

If you do a ch. 13, your plan payment is your DMI. Some of it may be negotiated, as HHM stated, such as you may think you should be able to keep XYZ as an expense and trustee may think its not necessary and you should get rid of it to pay more into the plan. Sounds like the other attys are saying you could do a 13 and strip the HELOC, and pay about $200/mo into the plan. Or do a 7 and keep the HELOC. I'm guessing the HELOC payment is about $200/mo? If so that would make sense if your DMI without the HELOC payment is $200 and your DMI with the HELOC is about $0.

[whathehell]

Well, it is ultimately up to the judge, but the lawyer prepares the plan initially. Until they look at real numbers and the ENTIRE situation, a good lawyer would not even ball park a figure at an initial consultation.

Any good lawyer will propose a payment that is as low as possible. The chapter 13 trustee will object, and want a higher payment (by questioning some of the claimed expenses), the final payment will be somewhere in between. In reality, a chapter 13 is mostly a negotiation. Very rarely does a judge actually make the decision. An agreeable number is usually arrived at between your lawyer and the chapter 13 trustee.

If you have over median and presumably have disposable income, I am not sure how lawyer 3 has chapter 7 as a realistic option. Certainly, in any case, chapter 7 is "possible" given the right circumstances.

Well he ran the numbers, I was there for over 2hrs they are really close to the real thing I was acutlly negative in the means test so that is the good sign. Point blank asked me if I am ok with 200 a month and clear everything in 5years. also said that there is no way I will get more hten 200 if all myu figures are correct..

[whathehell]

#1 could not tell you a plan payment if #1 did not go over all income/expense details with you. Being an initial consultation, that is nothing alarming. They know you're shopping for an atty, their time is valuable and perhaps they do not invest hours into your case before you hire them?

If you do a ch. 13, your plan payment is your DMI.
Some of it may be negotiated, as HHM stated, such as you may think you should be able to keep XYZ as an expense and trustee may think its not necessary and you should get rid of it to pay more into the plan. Sounds like the other attys are saying you could do a 13 and strip the HELOC, and pay about $200/mo into the plan. Or do a 7 and keep the HELOC. I'm guessing the HELOC payment is about $200/mo? If so that would make sense if your DMI without the HELOC payment is $200 and your DMI with the HELOC is about $0.

Possible, but that made me feel weird, the other one just got his laptop and started asking everything to give me the figure... that went a long way with me.



Yeah and he had me negative without the quaterly payouts...
Correct, I think it makes no sense on doing a 7 and keep paying the heloc that should be converting to principal and interest soon too.

[BCA2009]

I think the question is how bad do you want to keep the house. How upside down are you.

5 years is a long time. If you screw up at year 4.5 and get dismissed, the lien strip and all other accrued debt comes back.

If the house is still very upside down even after the strip, then you could go Chap 7, not re-affirm and have no obligation. Quit paying the second and consider your first "rent". Maybe settle the second down the road.

If after the lien strip you are not very far upside down, Chap 13 may be better.

But I like the ideas of having no mortgage obligations. Just pay the note and stay there.

Good luck either way.

[HHM]

You may want to consider this strategy

http://askmethner.com/high-risk-strategy-emerging-for-dealing-with-2nd-mortgages/

If you really can file a chapter 7, then the choice comes down to how comfortable you are with risk with losing the home.

If you go chapter 13, and make it, you are guaranteed to strip the HELOC. However, as was pointed out, chapter 13's are 5 years and a lot can change.

If you go 7, you cannot force the 2nd mortgage holder to remove the lien; you may attempt a settlement down the road, but there are no guarantees. The 2nd mortgage could still foreclose.

Anymore, I am more a fan of doing chapter 7 + settling 2nd mortgage, assuming that is a viable option.

[whathehell]

I think the question is how bad do you want to keep the house. How upside down are you.

5 years is a long time. If you screw up at year 4.5 and get dismissed, the lien strip and all other accrued debt comes back.

If the house is still very upside down even after the strip, then you could go Chap 7, not re-affirm and have no obligation. Quit paying the second and consider your first "rent". Maybe settle the second down the road.

If after the lien strip you are not very far upside down, Chap 13 may be better.

But I like the ideas of having no mortgage obligations. Just pay the note and stay there.

Good luck either way.

definetly want to keep the house, and its only upside down by 30k at this time...
$200.00 a month should not be a problem.
Heck I have paid twoce as much for card for longer then 5years..

[whathehell]

You may want to consider this strategy

http://askmethner.com/high-risk-strategy-emerging-for-dealing-with-2nd-mortgages/

If you really can file a chapter 7, then the choice comes down to how comfortable you are with risk with losing the home.

If you go chapter 13, and make it, you are guaranteed to strip the HELOC. However, as was pointed out, chapter 13's are 5 years and a lot can change.

If you go 7, you cannot force the 2nd mortgage holder to remove the lien; you may attempt a settlement down the road, but there are no guarantees.

Anymore, I am more a fan of doing chapter 7 + settling 2nd mortgage, assuming that is a viable option.

man that makes me nervous... got a whole weekend to think about this