staring to think Chapter 13 is just a big scam.

[espo1357]

Espo-

Ah, the good old underwater mortgage. You're not alone there, ya gots lots and lots o' company.

Sometimes life does really back you into a corner, and it ain't pretty. What you do is completely up to you, of course. What you need is some pre-hindsight, haha. If you do short sell, Ch 7 it, relocate and/or get back in school you may get a better job and things may start looking up.

In a couple years with no debt, your credit won't be as bad as all that. Especially if you are young(er) you have time to start building again.

Obviously, no decision IS a decision. My advice? Do a lot of research, get peoples' opinions (your attorney?), make your decision, take a breath, dive in and don't look back. The shoulda wouldas will kill you.

Good luck.

thanks for the feedback.
its just disgusting what this housing market has done to the financial futures of honest people.

to lose 10 or even 20 percent is not too bad, but 50 percent seems impossible to recoup.

[newbie2]

Thanks for all the responses.

1. Bought a home at the peak, and lost 50% plus in equity in only a few years.

2. Took a 50% pay cut from the time I bought the home. So, income is way down, and the current job is so much worse than the job I had when I bought the home.

2. Had no cc debt when I bought the home, but used some cc unwisely (my fault) to keep up with the home when I lost my job. Bad move.
Now, I have a job that is going nowhere and a career that is going nowhere (not going to get into details on that), and just don't see a way out of this, especially with a home that is way under.

3. Now that I am thinking of going back to school and thinking of moving to a better job market city, I feel that I have no flexability in doing so, because of this BK. I know I have options, I just don't know how to sort it all out.

4. My main beef is that the 13 should be used to protect assets, and my home is not an asset since it is way under. This home is becoming a chain. However, if I short sell, I will still be paying about the same as renting. And since I am so under, I am "renting" anyway.

On the bright side, this has been a great learning experience....

it just doesn't seem right to have to "feel" that I have no options on this, when I clearly do.

I appreciate all the responses here, as it helps me think about some options, and things to consider before making a move to go back to school, and convert to a 7 OR whether or not is makes sense to walk from a home that is 30% plus underwater.

You do have options. Call your attorney and go over them. Good luck to you.

[Morgon64]

What came to mind was another lesson I am still working on. I am very much susceptible to having other peoples' perceptions of me color my emotions. Like the Mommy thing. When he was being resentful and negative because I was doing what was necessary to save my house, I'd be feeling all guilty like I CHOSE to play Mommy. I'd be embarassed, even. I LET myself emotionally fall into the role that has been forced upon me! Let being the operative word here. Even now, I have to consciously make myself move out of that place.

As far as that book you read, well, anytime you try to apply a generic plan to real people there is bound to be a problem. It's unrealistic as hell to expect that just because someone has a pecker that they also can manage money wisely. Obviously that was an invitation to disaster for you! $13,000? Wow. Well, it's actually less than the truck fiasco over here.

I think you need to practice staying firm about the buying stuff. Of course he's gonna keep up the pressure if he knows that you'll cave eventually. Who wouldn't? Another thing I told myself - it's HIS turn to change, I'm tired of contorting myself around his unrealistic financial beliefs. It's exhausting. I have a RIGHT to my comfort level (like, not be in a constant panic). I really had a problem with being a pleaser, to the point of constantly playing some weird mental form of Twister. Bleh.

Let him have his little fits, stay in your happy place, and KEEP reminding yourself that he's creating the play in which you have to play Mommy, not you. Choose to live a better story, and I'll bet he realizes it and joins you. Also wondering what kind of
"messages" he (and you?) got growing up that equate masculinity with having 100% control of anything - like money. Again, I'm obviously struggling too with the Mommy thing so don't take that wrong. I think when you're married that each partner should bring their best talents to the table - even if it crosses gender "roles". That's what I remind myself, at least, when I find myself feeling like a fishwife when I'm just doing what I gotta do for my own sanity

[Flamingo]

OMG. You made me lol. You just described my hubby to a T. He's struggling with the bankruptcy and still throwing toddler temper tantrums when he can't buy something that he wants the second he wants it. I'm loving the bankruptcy--I'm the saver of the family. We have everything that we need and even a bit of savings (carefully hidden from dh). I hope he eventually learns something out of this like your hubby did. Any tips on helping him along?

Yes, you need to let him handle ALL the finances during your Plan years as hard as it may be for you (but work together)...he needs to learn how it all works and you can't spend more than what comes in or it will be another filing in several years...

[Flamingo]

thanks for the feedback.
its just disgusting what this housing market has done to the financial futures of honest people.

to lose 10 or even 20 percent is not too bad, but 50 percent seems impossible to recoup.

If you let your house go and switch to a Chapter 7, you never know if you will ever be in the position again to get another house. There is no guarantee as to future status, income, etc., etc. It's all up to you and many people in financial problems have a hard time making decisions but you have to look at it in the long run. Do you want the house and can you actually afford to keep the house? In the interim, you are still making mortgage payments, decreasing the balance as you go along and eventually the housing crises will go away and in several years you have your house, probably equity again whereas if you gave it all up you wouuld have no house and a Chapter 7 looming on your credit reports for 10 years when the 13 will come off after 7 years. Some of this is really a no brainer and just takes some common sense and doing what you want to do and can afford to do.

[cawells]

momofthree and Morgan64, you have made my day! It's nice to know I'm not the only one. AND I think you just saved me from plopping the pile of bills in front of my dh and saying "Here, you take over" even though I know the results would most likely be disastrous.

[mybk]

thanks for the feedback.
its just disgusting what this housing market has done to the financial futures of honest people.

to lose 10 or even 20 percent is not too bad, but 50 percent seems impossible to recoup.

Sadly many people think incorrectly of their home. It is not an investment, hard to find a successful business person who will tell you otherwise (with regards to your primary residence).

Borrowing money at 6% to make what typically is 3% is a bad decision. Only after the 5/6 year does even buying a home start to even out with the cost of what renting one would be.

It is a place to live, you usually need one and typically after 5/6 years it becomes cheaper each year compared to rent. After 10 years your home payment (assuming your loan is locked) will be far less than rent.

Yes, not having the equity in it sucks, but if everyone has lost 50% in your area, then what have you really lost?

Really want something disturbing to ponder on, consider your home an investment and then look at what you paid at the end of 30 years (principle + repairs + interest) then look at the current market value in 30 years and see if you made money. We are not even 30 years down the line and I can tell you it will not look good.

Good luck with either path you choose.

[espo1357]

Sadly many people think incorrectly of their home. It is not an investment, hard to find a successful business person who will tell you otherwise (with regards to your primary residence).

Borrowing money at 6% to make what typically is 3% is a bad decision. Only after the 5/6 year does even buying a home start to even out with the cost of what renting one would be.

It is a place to live, you usually need one and typically after 5/6 years it becomes cheaper each year compared to rent. After 10 years your home payment (assuming your loan is locked) will be far less than rent.

Yes, not having the equity in it sucks, but if everyone has lost 50% in your area, then what have you really lost?

Really want something disturbing to ponder on, consider your home an investment and then look at what you paid at the end of 30 years (principle + repairs + interest) then look at the current market value in 30 years and see if you made money. We are not even 30 years down the line and I can tell you it will not look good.

Good luck with either path you choose.

Good points here.
Major drawback to owning without equity, that is killing me, is I have no mobility if I get downsized or want to go back to school.

It makes sense only if you plan to live in that home for at least five years, and better, for the life of the loan.

My five years are up, and I lost. Its still hard to understand how something that historically appreciates 3 percent every year, loses 10 percent equity every year.

Was it bad luck or was I stupid to buy when I did? That is what I need to explore.

Looking back, I think I was stupid.

[NoTomatoCan]

Its still hard to understand how something that historically appreciates 3 percent every year, loses 10 percent equity every year.

Was it bad luck or was I stupid to buy when I did? That is what I need to explore.

I am no market expert, but I think the fact that a market that historically rises 3% a year was rising by 20%, 30%, or more a year for several years answers that question...

[espo1357]

I am no market expert, but I think the fact that a market that historically rises 3% a year was rising by 20%, 30%, or more a year for several years answers that question...

that is certaintly a good point.

Makes me feel dumber, that I bought when I did!

[NoTomatoCan]

that is certaintly a good point.

Makes me feel dumber, that I bought when I did!

No need to feel dumb! Many people are in the same situation.

Heck, I bought two houses over the past 5 years and got a 2nd mortgage on the one we already owned.

Each one of us on here has had some type of challenge or setback financially. It is how you deal with that setback and what you learn from it that will ultimately matter.

[Morgon64]

The market was being artificially fed by unscrupulous junk mortgage lenders and all sorts of other sharks that saw there was money to be made. Of course at some point the market was going to puke, but unless you were an expert or really really did a lot of research, how would you know?

Seriously, people that simply bought at the wrong time weren't to blame. Prices were being kept artificially high (and had been, for way too long), so how were you to know what a normal market was?

This was a lot bigger than a lot of people smarter than you or I...has nothing to do with your intelligence.

Chalk it up to a learning experience. That's all life is, anyway.

[Flamingo]

The market was being artificially fed by unscrupulous junk mortgage lenders and all sorts of other sharks that saw there was money to be made. Of course at some point the market was going to puke, but unless you were an expert or really really did a lot of research, how would you know?

Seriously, people that simply bought at the wrong time weren't to blame. Prices were being kept artificially high (and had been, for way too long), so how were you to know what a normal market was?

This was a lot bigger than a lot of people smarter than you or I...has nothing to do with your intelligence.

Chalk it up to a learning experience. That's all life is, anyway.

There were a lot of normal/regular people who either knew folks with knowledge in the stock market or banking/mortgage financial arenas that made a killing during the time a lot of other normal/regular folks got in over their heads. We have a good friend in the insuance business who during that time was able to purchase several low cost homes, fix them up, rent or flip them and the family is now retired in Myrtle Beach, SC. He managed to sell the houses at a huge profit before the housing market went down - lots of people saw it coming, made sure they took care of getting rid of their houses/assets, advised family/friends and those folks are and have been sitting pretty while those that got sucked into buying the high price homes got the shaft eventually. It's all about business and making money, how one handles their own money and how much knowledge they have of the banking and financial industries...also who they may know. Usually it takes getting stuck financially to figure it all out and hving to filing bankruptcy makes it shine in front of you like a neon billboard. It's business and the old term "The Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer" is so true...

[espo1357]

There were a lot of normal/regular people who either knew folks with knowledge in the stock market or banking/mortgage financial arenas that made a killing during the time a lot of other normal/regular folks got in over their heads. We have a good friend in the insuance business who during that time was able to purchase several low cost homes, fix them up, rent or flip them and the family is now retired in Myrtle Beach, SC. He managed to sell the houses at a huge profit before the housing market went down - lots of people saw it coming, made sure they took care of getting rid of their houses/assets, advised family/friends and those folks are and have been sitting pretty while those that got sucked into buying the high price homes got the shaft eventually. It's all about business and making money, how one handles their own money and how much knowledge they have of the banking and financial industries...also who they may know. Usually it takes getting stuck financially to figure it all out and hving to filing bankruptcy makes it shine in front of you like a neon billboard. It's business and the old term "The Rich get Richer and the Poor get Poorer" is so true...

Knowledge is Power.

No doubt about it.

Thankfully, I am young and have no wife or ex wife or kids, and can get a fresh start.

And, God willing, I will take that fresh start and not repeat the same mistakes, I pray.

Here are some things that are popping into my head, things that I have learned and wish I had known five years ago:

1. most people are full of shit. when you hand someone your money, be sure that they are battle tested and be sure to have a lawyer review all documents.

2. there is no such thing as a free lunch or easy money, despite was the bullshiters might want you to believe.

3. take yourself seriously. people that say "don't take yourself so seriously", are mostly losers (although I do find myself saying this sometimes).

Its ok to have fun and joy in life, as that is what God intended. But, at the same time if you don't take life seriously, you are headed for a disaster.