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Standard Deductions Challenged?!?

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    Standard Deductions Challenged?!?

    Ok, so after many hurdles, my wife and I are on the home stretch to getting confirmed. (We are in Michigan, so 60 months doesn't start until confirmation - so will have paid an extra 6 months if all goes as expected).

    We got our objections back from the trustee late last week. Most stuff we can work through, just need to document some expenses and stuff like 401k loan end date and other administrative stuff. Since we get a 341 status sheet prior to the 341 that lists any "potential" concerns, we covered as many of those items as possible in the 341 meeting.

    One item though is really sticking with me. We are a family of 4 (added newborn as of 3 weeks ago! YEAH!) We put down $750 for our food expenses. The IRS standard is $752, so I figured we were fine. I didn't bother saving any receipts since, well, we were under the IRS guidelines so why would anyone object. Lo and behold, the trustee objected to our $750/month to feed a family of 4 stating that was excessive and unreasonable!

    If you do the math, $720/month means $2 per person, per meal. So not like $750 means we are eating caviar and prime rib every night! Plus, with a newborn, that means formula which is crazy expensive.

    I asked our attorney about this (who is really good, and has emailed me about 20 times since Friday afternoon) and he basically stated - Get what receipts you can, print off bank statements with grocery store charges. He also stated that "The IRS standards aren't automatic. You have to show your expenses are reasonable and necessary."

    Anyone have advice/experience with this?

    #2
    I can't speak to the price of formula, but $750 seems high to me.

    We're a family of 6 and we spend about $600.

    You're saying that you really spend that much, right? Then send the documentation...everything should be fine then?

    This is an interesting question...everything I've read says that as long as you don't exceed the IRS guidelines, you're golden. Guess not...?

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by NoTomatoCan View Post
      If you do the math, $720/month means $2 per person, per meal. So not like $750 means we are eating caviar and prime rib every night! Plus, with a newborn, that means formula which is crazy expensive.

      Anyone have advice/experience with this?
      On a 12 month running average we spend $632.80 per month on food for a family of 4 and rarely get anything fancy beyond $2/pound hamburger. This excludes day care which provides 1 meal/day for the kids so $720 seems reasonable depending on the circumstances.

      Then again, if I had to live on half, I certainly could and maybe the fact that you were "just" under makes them challenge something. Remember they work for the government, not you.
      ======================
      Considering Chapter 13
      Looking for assistance.
      ======================

      Comment


        #4
        We are a family of 4 with a infant (December) and we spend just at 700 a month of food so I don't think your cost are too far out. Formula is very expensive. Good luck with the crappy UST!
        ___________
        ugghh

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by pepperoncini View Post
          I

          You're saying that you really spend that much, right? Then send the documentation...everything should be fine then?

          This is an interesting question...everything I've read says that as long as you don't exceed the IRS guidelines, you're golden. Guess not...?
          That is my issue... per my post, I have no receipts. Since I was under the IRS guidelines I didn't believe it would be an issue. I have Quicken that I use for all of our expenses - exported from online bank statements, but the problem with food purchases is that a trip to Sam's Club (or other grocery store) typically has other categories included as well (Healthcare, Housekeeping supplies).

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by NoTomatoCan View Post
            That is my issue... per my post, I have no receipts. Since I was under the IRS guidelines I didn't believe it would be an issue. I have Quicken that I use for all of our expenses - exported from online bank statements, but the problem with food purchases is that a trip to Sam's Club (or other grocery store) typically has other categories included as well (Healthcare, Housekeeping supplies).
            I've found this to be the case also in Michigan (line items challenged and having to prove them even when the under IRS standards..)

            Do the best you can to document your purchases, especially the last couple of weeks with the new infant. (Congrats btw, that's wonderful news!)
            PS: I hate that the 60 month count down doesn't start until confirmation. In some ways it can be handy, but in cases like yours it really stinks. 6 months of payments extra..
            Filed Chapter 13 02/2006 - Confirmed 05/2006 - Discharged 09/2011
            I'm not an attorney. My replies are merely suggestions or observations, not legal advice. As always, consult with an attorney before making any decisions.

            Comment


              #7
              He's a "nit-picking" trustee (with attitude), that's all.

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks for all the responses. In the big picture, this isn't going to make or break our plan, but I was just really shocked at this particular objection. Based on feedback from others, I figured as long as we were within IRS standards, we were in good shape.


                @Newbie2 - Thanks. At least it isn't just me. Yeah, that is what we are doing. And I have documentation on our bank statements of probably 98% of all purchases, but unlike gas, electric, cell phone, etc... A trip to the grocery store encompasses more than just one budgetary line item. So we will have receipts for a limited time to do what we can.


                @BKOnce - Indeed. We do have a tough trustee. We have gotten much of what we have wanted up to this point, so I figured there had to be a fight there somewhere. This is just tough since it is like a one sided negotiation! Not like we got told "$750 is too high, $650 is acceptable". So we have to guess at what the trustee will accept, or come up with the documentation. Boo.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Mine was approved @ $720 for a family of 5. I spend more than this but I like to eat.
                  19% dividend

                  Comment

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