13 may be only hope..need help!!!

[walkthaplank]

You really need to talk to several attorneys in the area soon. You have a fairly complex BK and you need solid legal advice. I had my 13 through the Riverside Court which I am certain is where your BK will be handled. I will tell you this, the trustees will object to anything but a pretty tight budget. They are strict/hard but appear to be fair. I went through 2 341 meetings and never saw anybody's housing expense questioned or objected to, but yours is substantially higher than the median for your area. Hopefully your attorney can sell it as an extension of your business.

Good luck and get thee to some attorneys pronto. Good luck, it will get better, but it will be a journey.

[Atrix]

Walkthaplank.....now you made me nervous again......How many attorney should I talk to? What am I looking for exactly?.....

The attorney I spoke to doe sonly bakruptcy and is a CPA....this sound like what i need.

Is my case that complex? Should I worry now?

Tight budget is fine...I need that..but my expenses are what they are every month...$2300 for rent...health ins $600...car payment $615...life inurance $400....car insurance $300....

What will a trustee do if they think thee expenses are too high?....I can't get cheaper insurance...I have already tried...Also my electric billl is $460 a month...I can't change that either...I live in the desert? I have to run the AC.

Also...you said get to an attorney pronto????? I alrealy have an appointment this week but why the pronto? Did I miss something? I thought I had 3 to 6 months?

Since you have been through Riverside Courts...any other advice? how long should I expect this to take?

OH...NO!!!!!.now I am worried again.

[momofthree]

Why is your life insurance so high? Do you have major health issues? Or is that a whole life policy?

They can object to anything over IRS standards (including your rent, car payment, utility bills, etc), but just because they object doesn't mean that they'll get their way. I mean, they could tell you to keep your thermostat at 85 and deal with it, lol, but chances are the judge wouldn't be that mean....

Really though, you need to average out your electric over 12 months, it's not $460 all year round, just during the summer, right? Like I mentioned before, if your electric company offers it (most do these days), balanced billing is the way to go, that way you pay the same amount every month, so you do pay more than normal during the winter, but it means the summer months are affordable. We pay around $200 a month. Temps here are 110-115 most of the summer and we keep our house at 80.

[walkthaplank]

Walkthaplank.....now you made me nervous again......How many attorney should I talk to? What am I looking for exactly?.....

The attorney I spoke to doe sonly bakruptcy and is a CPA....this sound like what i need.

Is my case that complex? Should I worry now?

Tight budget is fine...I need that..but my expenses are what they are every month...$2300 for rent...health ins $600...car payment $615...life inurance $400....car insurance $300....

What will a trustee do if they think thee expenses are too high?....I can't get cheaper insurance...I have already tried...Also my electric billl is $460 a month...I can't change that either...I live in the desert? I have to run the AC.

Also...you said get to an attorney pronto????? I alrealy have an appointment this week but why the pronto? Did I miss something? I thought I had 3 to 6 months?

Since you have been through Riverside Courts...any other advice? how long should I expect this to take?

OH...NO!!!!!.now I am worried again.

I don't want you to be nervous, I want you to be prepared and to also know that your case may be a little outside the norm.

You should talk to at least 3 lawyers, more is better, and be ready to hear three completely different scenarios. Ultimately you want to know if this lawyer is going to represent you at your 341 or do they farm it out to an "appearance lawyer". An appearance lawyer has no knowledge of your case and they are just paid to be there for your meeting so that you have "representation".

Once you determine who will be sitting next to you when you are across from the trustee's lawyer, you need to lay out your info and be willing to understand that you may be hearing something you don't necessarily want to hear. This is why you want to talk to many lawyers, if everybody is telling you "x", but you talk to one lawyer that is telling you everything you want to hear, you need to cross that guy off your list. He is likely very full of it and when it comes down to everything he told you being wrong, his attitude will be "oh well, I tried" and he gets to walk away and you are now angry, surprised and in a plan you weren't expecting to be in.

I don't know the answer to your questions, but some of the several lawyers you will need to talk to should. The real value of this forum is to find out what you should be asking of your lawyer, every district is different and handles things differently. Depending on the circuit, the law is often even applied differently. Your car is substantially higher than the IRS allowance, they may actually disallow the amount above the allowance. If it were close they'd likely just allow it. Our car payment is about $20 over the allowance and they allowed it. If you have had your car for more than 910 days, you might want to try to have the loan crammed down. Essentially they take the current market value of your vehicle, whatever amount on your loan that is left unsecured, is created "unsecured" and is paid back at whatever your percentage happens to be. Your life insurance is VERY high. I can see that being objected to, but your lawyer would know better. Health insurance they won't question, it is what it is. If housing averages in your area are commensurate with what you are paying, you might have to fight to justify why you need that house and pay that amount, but you will probably be able to get it through. If it is substantially higher than what a household of your size in that area would pay, be prepared for an objection (your lawyer should prepare you for all of this, because they should know how the trustee views these things). Your SCE bill is high but, is it normal for the area? The trustee has much more room to object to things as a renter because theoretically you could move to somewhere cheaper with lower utility bills. Since the added space is used for business you might get away with it.

When I say get to lawyers pronto, do it now. You will have lots of material to get together, it will also take your lawyer a while to assemble your case, have you review it and then file it. It took me two months from the time I submitted my paperwork to my attorney before they were ready to file and mine was a run of the mill CH13.

The Riverside Court works very swiftly when it comes to CH13. If you have no creditor objections to your submitted plan, confirmation hearings are held the afternoon of the 341, either you are on the consent calendar (the trustee agrees to your plan) or you are on the contested calendar (the trustee objects and it is litigated). The 341 is pretty straight forward, the trustee's counsel rattles off their objections to your plan in terms that you the layperson won't understand and probably give you the number they believe to be correct. You either accept their numbers, or your attorney litigates your case that afternoon at the confirmation hearing.

When I say they are hard but fair, I mean just that. I saw the trustee's counsel adjust debtors amount to a lower payment when they thought the debtor's attorney did not take the full allowance. The trustee has a desire to make sure your plan feasible as well. But when I say hard, I mean hard. If they think you are playing games, they'll lay into your lawyer and start cutting, happy to litigate. I saw them also lay into the debtor's lawyer when the lawyer stepped out of bounds with fees or terms of representation. The judges at the Riverside court like to stay as close to the IRS guidelines as possible.

I can't say this enough, get moving, be prepared and expect to hear some things you don't want to. It will be ok, just be prepared.

[walkthaplank]

Atrix, I also wanted to say that you have nothing to be ashamed of.. everybody here is kind of in the same boat. We all went through what you are going through. Scared, angry, nervous, ashamed and on and on... the bottom line is that this is a legitimate tool to get your life and finances back on track. This will all work out in the end, it just may not be easy in the interim. So relax, enjoy your family and talk to some lawyers

[researchnerd]

You should talk to at least 3 lawyers, more is better, and be ready to hear three completely different scenarios. Ultimately you want to know if this lawyer is going to represent you at your 341 or do they farm it out to an "appearance lawyer". An appearance lawyer has no knowledge of your case and they are just paid to be there for your meeting so that you have "representation".

I just had my 341 yesterday and we had an appearance lawyer (thanks for that term, I didn't know what to call him). He was very nice and quite knowledgeable, but I didn't feel particularly represented. The second we were done he was off, out of the hearing room talking to someone else, and I had to chase him down to ask what happens next.

Interviewing several attorneys is something I recommend, especially if your case is complicated. We did not do this, and while I think it will turn out OK for us, I wish we had. Our attorney is very hands-off...his attitude is, "Don't worry about anything, we'll take care of it and let you know when it's done" -- but I would rather be more involved. Now that they have made some pretty significant mistakes I've had to become really proactive. Had I taken the time to talk with a few different ones, I might have chosen one who was more open to frequent communication.