Confirmation Objections

[wanuvas]

Quick question on objections to your plan from creditors.

When do they have to file the objection? before the 341 hearing or the confirmation hearing?

In our case no creditors showed up to our 341 hearing however now less than 20 days before our confirmation hearing one of our creditors has filed an objection to our plan. My reading of the 341 notice says creditors must file objections 2 days before the date or appear in person. A second notice setting the confirmation hearing says only 20 days after the concurrent 341/ confirmation hearing which was the original notice.

We went tot he 341 and had no issues and the trustee recommended to the judge to confirm and the second meeting is simply supposed to formalize it.

ANybody have experience with this? It feels like one of the creditors messed up and is now too late. How much a stickler are judges for deadlines and do they have flexibility or is this a simple matter of law?

[lrprn]

When do they have to file the objection? before the 341 hearing or the confirmation hearing?

ANybody have experience with this?

Oh yes. Check my signature....we had three objections All were filed within the allowed timeframe.

It feels like one of the creditors messed up and is now too late. How much a stickler are judges for deadlines and do they have flexibility or is this a simple matter of law?

Unless more than 90 days from your 341 have passed (or more than 180 days from your filind date if the creditor is a govt creditor), this creditor is well within the time frame the bk law allows to file an objection.

How many days have passed since your 341 meeting? Is the creditor who filed the objection a government creditor?

Stay calm - don't waste your energy at this point. Unlike Ch 7, it's very common for Ch 13 plans to get objections. 90% of them are resolved before your confirmation hearing. Your lawyer will be working with the creditor to sort out the issue and talk with you to recommend the best response to the objection.

[espo1357]

Good advice. It is NEVER wise to fret. Things will take care of themselves. If you can't afford the home, for example, then you are going to have to walk form the home, and lower you nut.

If you can't pay a bill, then you might have to find a roomate to cover costs.

Point is you have to control you finances or they will control you.

[wanuvas]

Thanks for the tips! I'm not overly worried. Okay, a little bit.

Sorry for my unclear question. I appreciate lrprn reminding me creditors have 90 or 180 days to file a proof of claim.

My question is after the 341 hearing how much longer if any at all does a creditor have time to file an objection to confirmation? When does the clock start if you will for that in the Bankruptcy code? A careful reading of the notices sent to my creditors, as well as the rules themselves, seem to indicate under the local rules in my district that they need to object to confirmation no later than 20 days after the 341 hearing. My attorney has the notice and seems to be a stand up person, great communication etc. but I haven't heard from them yet. The reason I'm asking is it would be simple hopefully to say if the objection was filed too late that you had proper notice, thanks for playing to the creditor and move forward. Otherwise dealing with this particular objection could be tricky, complicated and therefore possibly expensive.

Thanks in advance for any additional information!

[sworks2]

One would have to think that if the creditor has 90 days past your 341 meeting to file a POC, then how could they be limited to only 20 days past your 341 to object to a plan?
The plan would be contingent on how many claims came in and that wouldn't be done until 90 days past your 341 meeting.
I'm pretty sure the 90 days past the 341 meeting is also the time a creditor gets to object to a plan.

[lrprn]

Thanks in advance for any additional information!

The Federal Rules of Bankruptcy Procedure - Part IV Rule 4003 Exemptions of the bk law states, " http://www.mcdonaldlawaz.com/bkcode/FRBPp4.htm#4003

Bottom line is if the objection is related to your exemptions, the creditor and trustee have 30 days after your 341 meeting to enter an objection unless they file an extension request and the court grants it.

Of course, your local court could have a different timeline that's shorter than the federal law requires. Have you asked your lawyer about this yet?

[wanuvas]

Thanks lrprn. I have they just haven't gotten back to me. I know I should chill but I thought this was going pretty well and would be clean cut since we had no issues at our 341.

The objection is based on 523a(5) vs. 523a(15) i.e. I claimed a debt was a property settlement and they are objecting and saying it's a DSO. THe divorce decree is arguably unclear depending on how it's interpreted. 7 years ago when the decree was written the laws were different and it didn't matter. Now it very much matters if its a property settlement or a DSO. This is admittedly a sticky area of the law and it really messes up my 13 plan if the court finds it's a dso. Both of us of course have our own understanding from then and now. It may turn out like debating what the meaning of is is to borrow a famous phrase.

Our local rules state that the 341 is held concurrently with the confirmation hearing and unless there are written objections to the confirmation filed within 20 days AFTER the 341, assuming the creditor didn't show at the 341 my layman's reading is that the judge should deny the motion because it wasn't timely filed. That would be the simplest. If that isn't the case then we'll have to do an AP and if we lose in bankruptcy court then I'll be back to state court to modify the divorce decree. My ex's counsel's motion is littered with references to Ch 7 case law and the firm she is using specializes in estate planning and family law so there may be other issues to explore or defend against.

It's interesting from a theory & intellectual point of view as there really isn't much case law since the 2005 change... at least not that I can find. Not so much to live in it.

I'll just have to wait on my attorney and trust that courts have rules for a reason and work through it I suppose.