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    Sink or Swim ? Need Advice Desperately

    We are a married couple in our late 40's with 2 kids living with us in their 20's. The 21 yr old currently is unemployed due to a health problem he is recoverin from and has no income. The 24 yr old is working for minimum wage and just sold his truck to pay off his bills from when he had a better paying job. Neither of them are able to pay any sort of rent to help us out. We filed Ch 7 in 91, when they were just babies due to medical expenses and a failed small business. In the time since, we have struggled to keep our heads above water due to low wages in our eastern TN area. Here is my story:

    We received our first CC while going thru the first BK in 91. Used it at times we shouldn't have and the bill got up there. When kids were in last years of HS, wife started working and we started living better with the added income. Because of this, I had paid the card down. In 2/09, she quit her job (without notice) to take another before checking further into it. She ended up not getting the job and her previous employer announced they were closing the store. Because of her actions, no job and no unemployment. This suddenly brought our income down from $50K to around $30K now.

    Here we are, nearly 18 months later and she still can't find a job. Since she has been unemployed, we had to start relying on CC's again and they are almost maxed out. My credit score has been 760, but I know it will start dropping very soon, as I have exhausted CC's just to stay on top of bills and buy groceries. We have been considering BK again, but don't want to lose what we have. I am not currently late nor have I been on any of my bills, but that is about to end. We also receive rent from daughter, her bf, and 2 kids from a doublewide we own next door. The problem with that is that his hours have been cut and sometimes he is having problems paying all of the $300 rent.

    Specifics:
    Current income from my job = $1800/month net after taxes & health insurance deductions
    Rent from doublewide = +300/month
    Mortgage = -490/month with about $40K owed
    Credit cards (total of 3) = -800/month minimum with total of about $45K
    Electric bill = -250/month average
    Phone/cell/cable/etc = -200/month

    That's not even figuring in approx. $250/month for property insurance on both properties and car insurance for us, or even groceries and clothing. Right now, the compressor on our heat pump is out so we are using window a/c's as I can't afford to repair. There is also something wrong with daughter's heat pump so they are using window a/c's too because I can't afford to fix that either.

    Back in the mid 90's, we bought the doublewide new and it is now paid for. Wife's grandparents gave us 1 acre of land for it and when they passed away in 2000, wife inherited their small farm and house which is where we are living now. It was built in the 1890's and we have been trying to make repairs on it to get it current on insulation, etc. When we inherited it, we got a mortgage on it to pay off doublewide and to have money to remodel and repair this old house.

    As all of this property has stayed in the family, we didn't want to lose any of it. I would just give the d/w and land to daughter so that it would stay, but I know that in BK, they wouldn't like that too well. We talked about Ch 13 so we could keep it and the house, but I am not sure they would even approve it. As I said before, my earnings are a gross of around $30K and the state median is $47K. When I did the means for Ch 13, the calculator said that in 5 years, I have the ability to pay -$85K (negative). I feel that if the CC payments were gone, I could pay $200/month toward them but not sure they would have it. Since my income is below the median, this means I would only have to pay for 36 months, which would only be $7200 and I don't think they would go for it. The d/w (by tax records) is valued around $80K and our farm is around $120K.

    Does anyone know of a way I can do this without losing either of the properties? In TN, you only get a $7500 homestead exemption for equity when a couple are involved. I am at my wit's end and can't keep going on like this. Thanks

    #2
    Originally posted by boatboy View Post
    We are a married couple in our late 40's with 2 kids living with us in their 20's. The 21 yr old currently is unemployed due to a health problem he is recoverin from and has no income. The 24 yr old is working for minimum wage and just sold his truck to pay off his bills from when he had a better paying job. Neither of them are able to pay any sort of rent to help us out. We filed Ch 7 in 91, when they were just babies due to medical expenses and a failed small business. In the time since, we have struggled to keep our heads above water due to low wages in our eastern TN area. Here is my story:

    We received our first CC while going thru the first BK in 91. Used it at times we shouldn't have and the bill got up there. When kids were in last years of HS, wife started working and we started living better with the added income. Because of this, I had paid the card down. In 2/09, she quit her job (without notice) to take another before checking further into it. She ended up not getting the job and her previous employer announced they were closing the store. Because of her actions, no job and no unemployment. This suddenly brought our income down from $50K to around $30K now.

    Here we are, nearly 18 months later and she still can't find a job. Since she has been unemployed, we had to start relying on CC's again and they are almost maxed out. My credit score has been 760, but I know it will start dropping very soon, as I have exhausted CC's just to stay on top of bills and buy groceries. We have been considering BK again, but don't want to lose what we have. I am not currently late nor have I been on any of my bills, but that is about to end. We also receive rent from daughter, her bf, and 2 kids from a doublewide we own next door. The problem with that is that his hours have been cut and sometimes he is having problems paying all of the $300 rent.

    Specifics:
    Current income from my job = $1800/month net after taxes & health insurance deductions
    Rent from doublewide = +300/month
    Mortgage = -490/month with about $40K owed
    Credit cards (total of 3) = -800/month minimum with total of about $45K
    Electric bill = -250/month average
    Phone/cell/cable/etc = -200/month

    That's not even figuring in approx. $250/month for property insurance on both properties and car insurance for us, or even groceries and clothing. Right now, the compressor on our heat pump is out so we are using window a/c's as I can't afford to repair. There is also something wrong with daughter's heat pump so they are using window a/c's too because I can't afford to fix that either.

    Back in the mid 90's, we bought the doublewide new and it is now paid for. Wife's grandparents gave us 1 acre of land for it and when they passed away in 2000, wife inherited their small farm and house which is where we are living now. It was built in the 1890's and we have been trying to make repairs on it to get it current on insulation, etc. When we inherited it, we got a mortgage on it to pay off doublewide and to have money to remodel and repair this old house.

    As all of this property has stayed in the family, we didn't want to lose any of it. I would just give the d/w and land to daughter so that it would stay, but I know that in BK, they wouldn't like that too well. We talked about Ch 13 so we could keep it and the house, but I am not sure they would even approve it. As I said before, my earnings are a gross of around $30K and the state median is $47K. When I did the means for Ch 13, the calculator said that in 5 years, I have the ability to pay -$85K (negative). I feel that if the CC payments were gone, I could pay $200/month toward them but not sure they would have it. Since my income is below the median, this means I would only have to pay for 36 months, which would only be $7200 and I don't think they would go for it. The d/w (by tax records) is valued around $80K and our farm is around $120K.

    Does anyone know of a way I can do this without losing either of the properties? In TN, you only get a $7500 homestead exemption for equity when a couple are involved. I am at my wit's end and can't keep going on like this. Thanks
    with that kinda homestead exemption u can kiss your properties goodbye
    also homestead exemption only applies to your primary residence.
    Filed chapter 7 on 9/17 341 on 10/20
    Chapter 7 Trustee's Report of No Distribution on 10/21
    Discharged and Case Closed on 12/21/2010

    Comment


      #3
      I do believe it's time for you to start free consultations with several bk attorneys. Have a feeling that you most likely will have to decide where you want to live and give up one of the properties to the bk estate....keep in mind however that's just what I am 'smelling to be in the wind'... and, again... I would get legal advice and see about 3 to 4 attorneys...asking specific questions with them all the way, and then come back to this forum to keep asking for clarification of more questions, as I am sure there will be more... just my thoughts....

      Comment


        #4
        I know how you feel. You need to get a free consultation from a few lawyers. I'm pretty sure that if you file Chapter 13 little or nothing would go to your cc (unsecured debt.) I was under the impression that the Trustee could let you pay for 5 years? Even if you are under the median like myself.

        I'm no expert! But Chapter 13 might work for you. I hope you get some response from the experts on this forum. They would be able to better direct you.

        Comment


          #5
          Is the farm in your name?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ShooFly View Post
            Is the farm in your name?
            Both properties are in our names jointly.

            BTW, as everyone else was saying, we do plan on contacting an attorney tomorrow to see what we can find out.

            Comment


              #7
              Given your income level and number of adults living in your household, it's highly unlikely you'll be able to file Ch 13. There has to be sufficient disposable income showing on the Means Test and Schedules to support a Ch 13 plan, and from the limited information you provided, I doubt there's enough.

              Seeing 3-4 experienced bk lawyers in your area is the way to go. You'll find out what may be possible in your situation and what won't be. Hang in there. Making decisions with cold, hard facts will always give you a better outcome than depending just on what you've heard about bk and your emotions. You may not like the outcomes the lawyers present to you, but at least you'll know what you're up against and what the possibilities are.
              I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

              06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
              06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
              07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
              10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
              01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
              09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
              06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
              08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

              10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
              Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by lrprn View Post
                Given your income level and number of adults living in your household, it's highly unlikely you'll be able to file Ch 13. There has to be sufficient disposable income showing on the Means Test and Schedules to support a Ch 13 plan, and from the limited information you provided, I doubt there's enough.

                Seeing 3-4 experienced bk lawyers in your area is the way to go. You'll find out what may be possible in your situation and what won't be. Hang in there. Making decisions with cold, hard facts will always give you a better outcome than depending just on what you've heard about bk and your emotions. You may not like the outcomes the lawyers present to you, but at least you'll know what you're up against and what the possibilities are.
                I tend to agree with this. Since your credit is still good, filing a 7 would wipe out the unsecured and leave you with just the motgages and ulilities. You'd have to pass that means test as well, but it sounds like that might be the better option.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by ShooFly View Post
                  I tend to agree with this. Since your credit is still good, filing a 7 would wipe out the unsecured and leave you with just the motgages and ulilities. You'd have to pass that means test as well, but it sounds like that might be the better option.
                  Except the trustee will most likely sell both the farm & MH and use the proceeds to pay off all the unsecured creditors. It sounds like the op is looking for a way to keep the properties.

                  Speaking to an attorney is definitely the first place to start. Don't do anything until you've done so...
                  Filed Chapter 13 on 2-28-10. 341 completed 4/14/10. Confirmed 5/14/10. Lien strip granted 2/2/11
                  0% payback to unsecured creditors, 56 payments down, 4 to go....

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by momofthree View Post
                    Except the trustee will most likely sell both the farm & MH and use the proceeds to pay off all the unsecured creditors. It sounds like the op is looking for a way to keep the properties.

                    Speaking to an attorney is definitely the first place to start. Don't do anything until you've done so...
                    No disrespect intended, but why would they sell both properties to cover a debt that is slightly more than half of the value of the MH alone?

                    Also, I love TN, but this $7500 homestead credit is ridiculous. That is enough to buy 3 cardboard boxes and some contact cement. Guess that's why you see so many people with new Lincoln's parked in front of a run down shack.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by boatboy View Post
                      No disrespect intended, but why would they sell both properties to cover a debt that is slightly more than half of the value of the MH alone?
                      Good point, I didn't know how high your debt was.

                      Edited to add: I see you mentioned your cc debt of $40k in your first post. Clearly it's late and I'm sick, lol.
                      Filed Chapter 13 on 2-28-10. 341 completed 4/14/10. Confirmed 5/14/10. Lien strip granted 2/2/11
                      0% payback to unsecured creditors, 56 payments down, 4 to go....

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I also didn't think the courts could make you sell your primary residence under a 7. Have the rules been changed on that??

                        Comment

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