Just about over the edge on this.

[cwillie]

Our trustee allowed us $300 per month to contribute to our daughter's college expenses. From all that I have read on here, we are lucky.

[Pandora]

Please do not put your horses down because you feel you cannot afford them - there are shelters for such instances. Your animals did not ask for you to be their owners, however since you decided to take that on yourselves, it is your responsibility to ensure their care for their lifetime.

That is just heartbreaking to even read. Call a rescue shelter for horses or any other animals you have before you decide to kill them off for selfish reasons.

[LadyInTheRed]

Remember, you will no longer be in control of your finances. The control will be handed over to someone else.

That's not really true, which leads to the following misunderstanding:

...but now it sounds like the money goes straight to the trustee and they give us an allowance?

It's true that when you file Chapter 13 you must propose a budget that will either be accepted by the trustee or require further negotiation to get it approved. That budget will determine how much you pay to the trustee. But, once your plan is approved you are in control of your finances. You pay the trustee (possibly through wage garnishment) and any secured creditors you are required to pay directly. You are in charge of how you spend the rest of your money. You just can't incur more debt or sell assets without the permission of the trustee. You may also be required to report changes in your income and turn over any tax refunds you receive. I understand there are some trustees that require you to submit a financial report periodically, but that appears to be the exception rather than the norm.

[SteveM]

Please do not put your horses down because you feel you cannot afford them - there are shelters for such instances. Your animals did not ask for you to be their owners, however since you decided to take that on yourselves, it is your responsibility to ensure their care for their lifetime.

That is just heartbreaking to even read. Call a rescue shelter for horses or any other animals you have before you decide to kill them off for selfish reasons.

Please understand, we have tried every horse retirement ranch for 100's of miles.
No one will take the horses because they are too old, too tired, and too lame.
In our area the large animal shelters have long ago filled past capacity.

In reality, I know we won't be able to do it and we will tell everyone (courts) we put them down and end up using some of our food money to feed them pay for their stable fees.

They are pets and we do not want to put them down, but if we give them away to just anyone, we know (from experience) what will happen to them.
They will end up crammed in a truck and shipped to Mexico for dog food.
(That's how we got one of them, from a last minute rescue)
We do not want that to happen.

[lrprn]

SteveM, to learn more about how Ch 13 and Ch 7 work, I suggest buying the excellent NOLO Ch 13 and Ch 7 books. It will be the best $40-50 you ever spent. You can buy these in the standard Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc. You can also buy an electronic copy or order the books online. Here's the link to the NOLO "Chapter 13 Bankruptcy" book - http://www.nolo.com/products/chapter...uptcy-CHB.html . And here's the link to the NOLO Ch 7 book "How to File for Chapter 7 Bankruptcy" - http://www.nolo.com/products/how-to-...uptcy-HFB.html

Also check out these links about Ch 13 and Ch 7 that are written in a way that's more understandable to those just learning about how both chapters for consumer bankruptcy really works:

Chapter 7:

http://www.moranlaw.net/chapter7.htm

http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/Bankruptcy/BankruptcyBasics/Chapter7.aspx

Chapter 13:

http://moranlaw.net/13workings.htm#Chapter%2013%20practice

http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/Bankruptcy/BankruptcyBasics/Chapter13.aspx

Keep asking questions, but you'll get a far better overall understanding of bankruptcy a lot faster if you'll do a little homework first. Happy reading!

[blessed]

Or check them out at the library for a couple weeks. If you love the books that much you can buy your own set. I soon realized I didn't need to own them with google at my fingertips.

[lrprn]

Or check them out at the library for a couple weeks. If you love the books that much you can buy your own set. I soon realized I didn't need to own them with google at my fingertips.

Great idea! Just be certain that the versions you check out are the most recent versions of any bankruptcy books.

The current bk law passed in 2005 and its interpretations have changed significantly in some areas over the last five years. Any bk books that don't include the 2005 bk law provisions are completely useless - avoid those for sure.

[Pandora]

Please understand, we have tried every horse retirement ranch for 100's of miles.
No one will take the horses because they are too old, too tired, and too lame.
In our area the large animal shelters have long ago filled past capacity.

In reality, I know we won't be able to do it and we will tell everyone (courts) we put them down and end up using some of our food money to feed them pay for their stable fees.

They are pets and we do not want to put them down, but if we give them away to just anyone, we know (from experience) what will happen to them.
They will end up crammed in a truck and shipped to Mexico for dog food.
(That's how we got one of them, from a last minute rescue)
We do not want that to happen.

Sorry, I cannot understand killing any animal because you got yourself into debt and feel you cannot pay for them any longer. Tell your daughters to get jobs and support themselves given they are 18 and 21 - and help out with the bills and household (as they should), then perhaps you can afford to care for animals that you knew lived for 25+ years when you got them and were a very big expense to begin with. Call me callous for saying this - whatever - but YOU took on the responsibility of wanting horses knowing full well how long they lived and now to post that you will kill them because you feel you "cannot afford to feed them" is animal cruelty at its best IMO. Cut back in some other areas as you will soon find out you will have to do, and make room in your budget for your charges that you took on. I certainly hope you dont have any dogs or cats that you would put down because you cannot afford them either. How about calling your ASPCA and ask them to come and take the horses (and any other animals you may have) - they will take them - I've seen it first hand over and over again.

I'm not a mean person and I'm not cruel - and I dont know you from Adam - but to post that you will kill your animals openly just screams animal cruelty in my book, sorry. If you didnt want opinions on this, you shouldnt have posted it on the web and invited it in.

As far as your BK goes - filing BK takes alot of knowledge on not only your part but your lawyers, and I agree with the others - get some more information behind you and read and learn all about both Chapters and your state laws as well as federal laws. See whats what.

[Pandora]

SteveM

I dont know where you live - if you type in "horse rescue" and then your state, you will find TONS of horse rescue places listed. Look outside of your state as well - there are MANY organizations that are willing to drive to you to come rescue horses. Trust me..... and if they dont drive to you, what is driving to them if its over 100 miles? I mean honestly - you claim they are your pets and you dont want to put them down... so do what you have to do to ensure they are not put to sleep. You rescued them for a reason according to you when you got them - so do the same kindness and let them be rescued again.

[momofthree]

Sorry, I cannot understand killing any animal because you got yourself into debt and feel you cannot pay for them any longer. Tell your daughters to get jobs and support themselves given they are 18 and 21 - and help out with the bills and household (as they should), then perhaps you can afford to care for animals that you knew lived for 25+ years when you got them and were a very big expense to begin with. Call me callous for saying this - whatever - but YOU took on the responsibility of wanting horses knowing full well how long they lived and now to post that you will kill them because you feel you "cannot afford to feed them" is animal cruelty at its best IMO. Cut back in some other areas as you will soon find out you will have to do, and make room in your budget for your charges that you took on. I certainly hope you dont have any dogs or cats that you would put down because you cannot afford them either. How about calling your ASPCA and ask them to come and take the horses (and any other animals you may have) - they will take them - I've seen it first hand over and over again.

I'm not a mean person and I'm not cruel - and I dont know you from Adam - but to post that you will kill your animals openly just screams animal cruelty in my book, sorry. If you didnt want opinions on this, you shouldnt have posted it on the web and invited it in.

As far as your BK goes - filing BK takes alot of knowledge on not only your part but your lawyers, and I agree with the others - get some more information behind you and read and learn all about both Chapters and your state laws as well as federal laws. See whats what.

For heaven's sake! Give him a break. He's not talking about beating his horses to death! He's mentioned peacefully putting his old, lame, sick horses down. He's also mentioned that he's not sure he could do it and may end up half starving himself in order to keep his horses. He's clearly hurting over this decision, and sometimes, you have to put people first. Sorry if that sounds like animal cruelty to you. From his posts, he obviously loves these animals, but he is at a financial breaking point and can't find someone else to take them. Will you take them for him?

[Pandora]

There are organizations to take them - you may not like it, but...thats your opinion and this is mine, right? I know he loves them, and if he loved them, then he would take them out of state or over 100 miles range.

No excuse for killing an animal because you got yourself into debt - sorry. Make the 2 other ADULTS get jobs and contribute. And I seriously doubt his family would starve... it would cost about $100 a month to feed both horses and stable fees are approximately $100.00 a month (and I live in horse country - very RICH horse country at that and those are the fees here - for very very luxurious stables - the lesser are about $30 per horse per month), so yes, it IS do-able.

Give me a break..

[momofthree]

There are organizations to take them - you may not like it, but...thats your opinion and this is mine, right? I know he loves them, and if he loved them, then he would take them out of state or over 100 miles range.

No excuse for killing an animal because you got yourself into debt - sorry. Make the 2 other ADULTS get jobs and contribute.

Give me a break..

it has nothing to do with opinion. I am going off of what the OP stated. He didn't say he looked everywhere within 100 miles. Go back and read his post, he said he looked everywhere for HUNDREDS of miles and no one will take them because they're too sick.

Give HIM a break. This is not an easy decision for him and if it comes down to starving himself or euthanizing the animals, then he needs to choose himself.

However, since you are so passionate about the subject, possibly, instead of judging and throwing around words like "selfish" then you could pm him and offer to help him find a rescue center who will take his animals. I'm sure he would be very grateful for the help.

[Pandora]

Momofthree -

I realize I may sound harsh in your opinion, however I am not - I simply am passionate regarding animals, especially ones that were previously rescued by people and now will meet the fate that they were originally rescued from. There is no reason to euthanize those horses unless they are on their death bed at this point, to which they are not - he clearly wrote he would put them down because of debt - then later when called out on it, he said they were old, sick and lame. So which is it? At least see my point of view and at least give me that credit. There ARE things that can be done and I have given the OP points and places to call, if I knew what state he was in, I would give 100% and assist in finding places for those animals. I'm sorry but when you want to allocate $ for your adult childrens college expenses, yet they are old enough to work and pay for expenses themselves, then you can afford to feed your animals - get those adult children to HELP OUT - plain and simple. Our 20 year old must work to pay for the things she requires, and that includes school. Life is hard.

Now - with that being said - perhaps if he went to backyardchickens.com and became a member, not stating about filing BK - but stating he is in financial hardship and has rescue horses that need to be taken - the people there are VERY COMPASSIONATE and do alot of rescues - from chickens, to horses, to dogs, cats, snakes, you name it - they will help find homes for them.

Trust in people to do the right thing and they will - I trust the OP will do the right thing when it comes to his animals, if thats too hard to hear for you or others, then I'm sorry, but its reality of owership and responsibility. Again, if he'd like to say where he is, I will be more than willing to assist him - he can PM me if he'd like.

[BankruptinNC]

it has nothing to do with opinion. I am going off of what the OP stated. He didn't say he looked everywhere within 100 miles. Go back and read his post, he said he looked everywhere for HUNDREDS of miles and no one will take them because they're too sick.

Give HIM a break. This is not an easy decision for him and if it comes down to starving himself or euthanizing the animals, then he needs to choose himself.

However, since you are so passionate about the subject, possibly, instead of judging and throwing around words like "selfish" then you could pm him and offer to help him find a rescue center who will take his animals. I'm sure he would be very grateful for the help.

I couldn't agree with you more, momofthree. The OP needs support and direction right now, not harassment! We are all on this forum because we've made some bad decisions in the past; NONE of us are perfect. To the OP, I know this is a very difficult decision for you, but you have to make the best decision for you and your family. Talk to a few bankruptcy attorneys in your area; they will usually do a free consultation to discuss your financial situation and best options. Good luck to you, and please keep us posted.

[Pandora]

Oh my word - get a grip. I have not harrassed the OP - I'm trying to HELP him, but its obvious neither of you can see anyone elses point of view nor read the lines that stated "...come to the conclusion that they are non-essential and will have to be put down." Not going to argue about it, it is what it is at this juncture, and I HAVE offered to help and assist - many times, whereas neither of you have offered any advice or suggestions on his predicament regarding his pets, only blasted me for saying its wrong to put them down due to debt, as originally posted! Get over it and HELP if you care to vs. blasting me. It has nothing to do with "making bad decisions in the past" - it has to do with putting down animals because of what exactly??? He could afford them and now...because he feels saddled with debt, he states they are non-essential and well..I'll just put them down vs. having them made into food in Mexico..?? Again, wasnt until afterward he stated they were "too old, too lame and too tired" - never mentioned they were "sick" - old, lame and tired isnt sick - it means they're old, too lame to ride and just tired from years. Dont even know how old they are...

Again, not going to argue with anyone on here about it - its my opinion and I'm entitled to it, just as you are entitled to yours and the OP is entitled to his, but dont post it openly if you dont want anyone commenting on it, its that simple. Take the good with the bad.

To the OP, here are several sites (national horse rescues) that you may call or look into for your rescue horses, I hope some of these may be able to help you in your agonizing decision. Again I dont know where you live, so this is the best I can do to assist you find homes for your horses at this moment.

Many of these organizations will come to you or will meet you at a designated location.

http://www.netpets.com/horses/horsresc/horsgrp.html

http://www.habitatforhorses.org/

http://www.naturalhorsetraining.com/u.s.national-horserescues.html

http://www.equinerescue.info/links.html

http://www.horseshowcentral.com/horse_rescue_search.php (scroll to the left and it lists states)

http://www.nationalequinerescuecoalition.com/

http://www.rescuecenters.com/horses.html

There are many many more sites - but this should get you started.

Good luck to you and I hope you can find them a wonderful home