Wife's Negative Approach to Ch13 Bankruptcy

[boochase]

I need help convincing my wife that Chapter 13 is the best option for us at this time. My wife is one of the biggest negative forces on the planet. She keeps telling me we have no money (well we do has some and that is why Ch13 beats Ch7). We own a house and all she keeps talking about is giving it up (which of course won't happen in a ch13 filing). We have income but it has diminished--she knows it. She doesn't understand that our unsecure debt ($22,000.00 in credit cards/$44,000.00 in unsecured second mortgage) basically goes away with a payment plan. She doesn't understand that since our home is underwater (she doesn't understand that either) that we can strip the second mortgage ($44,000) and add it into the payment plan. She would rather keep her American Express card and her MC intact, when we do have a bank account with debit cards to use as credit cards. She knows how we got to this point (legal problems that cost us a fortune plus the decrease in home equity). She thinks that bankruptcy is the end of the world and a scarlett letter. Of course, she will tell her mother and brother about it (to try to instill gulit); then they will all blame me for getting us to this point. She doesn't realize that there are people with much more wealth and much more income filing Ch13. She needs to understand this; I need help convincing here. Any there any stories out there that I can relate to her? I appreciate comments and stories. If there are any on the website, direct me to them for her to read. Thanks.

[Lissy]

Are you having trouble paying your cc's and mortgage? If so, how does your wife think you are ever going to catch up? What exactly concerns her? That your credit scores will be trashed? Well, if you start missing payments, or already have missed payments, that's going to happen anyway. Facing a Chapter 13 is scary in the beginning. I was terrified that I was going to end up with a monthly payment I couldn't manage. I had visions of myself eating ramen noodles for 5 years straight and staying locked up in my apartment because I couldn't afford to go anywhere. But I had no other way out from under the pile of debt I accumulated. And I've learned that if you get a good atty and plan well for at least a few months before filing, it's really not so bad.

I can't tell you what will convince your wife without knowing her specific concerns, but the fact that she wants to keep her cc's is an issue. She needs to see that using those things is a big part of the reason you're both in this mess. If it's that she's afraid you won't be able to survive without credit, then that's what a Chapter 13 is about. Teaching you to budget and live within your means so you don't need credit cards.

[TexasEx]

So sorry to hear this. Sounds like there is a communication problem going on between the both of you. Unfortunately filing for BK will probably just compound this. My wife and I were 100% in agreement of what had to be done and it was still very dificult to come to the realization that you have to file and then go through the process.

A lot of marriages don't make it through financial issues and BK won't make it better if she is opposed to this whole deal. As I've said before, filing for BK has been the smartest financial decision that we have made since we got into this whole mess. Yes you can tell her over and over about how other people file for BK that have more money and more debt than you, however you can't make a blind person see, so until she realizes this for herself you will be wasting your breath. Sounds like maybe you need to talk to a marriage counselor before making a decision?

Maybe try to appeal to her rational side a bit and tell her to leave her emotions out of it? At the end of the day this is a "business" decision and should be treated as such (as hard as this may seem).

Wish you the best of luck.

[Mi Bankruptcy]

It sounds like you need to take the approach with your wife that you only know what you read on the forums. Then ask her to go together to meet with 3 attorneys to hear their opinion on your guys situation. DO NOT try to move any direction. You let the professionals
(attorney) tell you which direction to move. This allows you to not be the bad guy when she hears it from someone else. You visit these free consults until you both agree. You also need to tell her that you guys are a team and you won't do anything until you both agree.

Personally, my wife did not want to file. I told her we were filing and that was it. One of the few times I get to put down my foot.

She said I don't want to lose the house and I don't want to lose our cars. These were her concerns and was the first thing I asked during our free consults when we met with them. You also need to be able to hear what the attorneys have to say.

[Brazzy]

I have to respect the wifey on this one. Some people refuse to give up. Good for her on having a fighting attitude. However, if BK is the last option maybe its the 3-5 years of the chapter 13 plan thats the scariest. I know you want the ch13 because you want to strip the lien, but maybe you can speak to an attorney about a ch7. Basically if you filed ch7 it would get rid of the credit card issue. The second lien would remain, but since they are wholly unsecured they will not make a move on the house. They will decline foreclosure and will not be able to take any legal action against you due to the BK. It will be charged off and you can settle the lien down the road. That will turn a 3-5 year ordeal into 3 months (barring anything crazy). Seems like it would be an easier sell to the wife and in theory easier on a marriage/relationship.

Talk to an atty to weigh the options and counsel you.

[researchnerd]

I'm with Mi Bankruptcy on this. It sounds like your wife is dead-set against it for her own reasons, and that you're both feeling emotional about it. That's completely normal, BK is a scary proposition, but reading internet stories about people she doesn't know is probably not going to make your wife feel better about it. Visit a good attorney together who can help you decide what's best in your unique situation, and make the decision together, as partners. This sounds weird, but in a way our impending BK has brought me and DH together...we're working as a team towards being debt-free. That's one goal you could aim for.

It's also really important to listen to her concerns and try to understand where she's coming from - there may be some underlying cultural or family reasons she hasn't mentioned. Whatever it's about -- if you don't get her complete buy-in but talk her into doing it reluctantly, it's going to be a looooooong five years.

[Flamingo]

There is more going on here than financial issues, there are control issues and I am assuming you have been in charge of taking care of the bills and she has no clue. Well, when reality finally comes to the door as it has done, things have to change and people hate change...your wife is freaking that she will have no credit cards to use and is in denial about your financial situation. What you have to do and either make her sit down while you do it or hand it to her when done is a complete spreadsheet of your bills, monthly payments, income and outgo to show her what is going on. It has to be physically done for many people before they can even start to get beyond the denial phase. Even many people who handle the money in a family have no clue how screwed up their finances have become until they put it all down in front of them.

Get her to go with you to talk to an "authority" on the situation (BK attorney) if she does not believe what you are showing her and have the attorney go over the entire situation for her. Again, your wife is scared, afraid of what will come with all this, no credit cards to use, big lifestyle adjustment, embarrassment of having to file, etc. It might not hurt for both of you to sit down with a marriage counselor over all this so both of you don't revert back to what occurred previously as to your finances. Best of luck to you both!

[boochase]

Appreciate the comments. Just had the discussion with the wife. Of course she blames me for everything. I can't find work (bad economy and severe hearing impairment eliminate a lot of jobs for me, like the ones that require me to use the phone. My investment income is down this year; of course, that is my fault too. She has an inheritance and her brother (college dropout manages it poorly). He is behind about 3 payments ($4500). So, with my income shaky, the inheritance shaky, and with the possiblity that my wife loses her job--she just won't consider BK. She wants to hit her mother up for money (which is fair to her for her parents bailed out her brother to the tune of $100K ten years ago). I really don't want to burden her mother when we have a legal solution. Anyway, I will probably file just myself and get rid of $22K of CC at least. We will see.

Brazzy, we can't file ch7 for we have non-exempt assets that need protection.

[momofthree]

How are you going to qualify for ch.13 bankruptcy on your own when you don't have a job? What is the value of your non-exempt assets?

[sofarsogood2]

Boo, sorry to hear about your situation. You wife is not sounding like a team player, and it takes a team to survive bankruptcy. It's rarely one person's fault. You can't find a job, she can't stop using CC's.

My spouse was reluctant at first, but I went about planning and learning all I could anyway. I talked to him regularly about our dwindling savings and what the future held, and what the options and likely outcomes were. He shut me down alot of times- but I was persistant. He eventually agreed to go on the consults and when an attorney layed it all out (said the same things I had been saying) he had an epiphany.

I consider it one of the best decisions we ever made, athough at the time it was terrifying.

Anyway, it all worked out as well as could be expected, we survived, learned some lessons, grew as a couple and family. We now get alot of phone calls from people wanting to hear about our experience. At first we kept it all a secret, but when we saw others suffering from overbearing debt - to the point of depression and severe emotional distress- we felt it was the right thing to tell them about our experience and offer any moral support we could. That meant admiting to the BK- something we thought we would never do.

Be persistant- discuss the options and possible outcomes. Maybe the money from her Mom is an answer, although you may need that money after a BK if you still can't find employment. Think it thru and try to keep emotions in check. It is a business decision.

Whatever your decision, best wishes to you.

[ssmdem]

My husband was against it at first too. He handles none of the finances and still has pretty much handed all of this over to me, although he is on board with the bankruptcy now.

Someone mentioned keeping it a secret at first -- you know I never dreamed I would have opened up as much as I have to some people. And when you do, it's AMAZING the number of people who are in the same boat and contemplating the same thing. I had no idea a friend was already in foreclosure with her house, which opened up an avenue for me to get some questions answered about how things work locally. We certainly haven't advertised, but absolutely NO ONE has been judgmental that we have told. It's people who are aware of our job losses and cut pay, and they've all been sympathetic and supportive.

I wish the best. If you can get her to an attorney to at least listen, you probably stand a better chance of her coming around. That's when my husband truly saw the light as well.

[Universal]

The scariest part for us was the anticipation, which is usually true about most things. Anticipation is much worse than the event itself. In the case of bk, anticipation is damn near debilitating. My husband still does not like it if I mention it to someone or talk about it, i.e., he doesn't want anyone to know. What have I found out when mentioning it to someone....... that they are in the same boat.
You just do what you have to do. After filing and getting in a new routine, it has been like being reborn.

[boochase]

I appreciate all of the comments, and I have read them to my wife. WE had the big argument last night and this morning. I finally got her to agree to sit with me at the lawyer's office and let her explain and answer questions. I feel that any personal business is just that--personal. That is the great thing about this forum--we can freely talk about BK without any embarrassement or hurt feelings. Unfortunately, my wife has to tell her mother everything and that means her brother finds out (and he is another story--a true blackhole for family money). Since my wife doesn't pay the bills and look at bank and brokerage statements, she doesn't appreciate the financial stress. In any case, she doesn't have the wherewithall to manage the household or money either. The upside I tried to tell her is that we are on a strict budget anyway--so that part will be easy. She complains that we don't do anything--so I challenge her to look at the 23 years of scrapbooks we have and remember the things we've done and the places we've been. She wants to buy me things I don't need or want. She will just have to get over it. She woories about her credit cards, but we do have a debit card. We will deal with replacing a leased car when it goes back in Nov. She also doesn't realize that things WILL get better and in five years we will be rid of a debt (64K) we accumulated over the past 6 years. Our situation: I am excellent at personal money management and finance. But when you are hit with legal bills over $120K, you do what you have to do--even if that means cash advances on every card, home equity lines, wipe out savings etc. Again, thanks for the thoughts and I will keep the forum posted.

[boochase]

Had a meeting with BK attorney. My wife seems to understand the benefits of CH13. She is reluctantly willing. We simply don't make enough money to cover our bills and debt. My mother-in-law and wife said the solution is simple: I have to increase my income by getting another job. Wow, why didn't I think of that? I have been trying for over four years. As a retired dentist (because of a back injury), and severely hearing-impaired one at that, I am not trained to do anything else. I would love to retrain but I don't have the money to do that. Not to mention the fact that there are no jobs in Florida anyway. It sucks to be over-educated these days..my mother-in-law's housekeeper can get more jobs than I can. The housekeeper's husband is in the same boat as I am. How ironic. My wife is a teacher assistance (two years of community college) and has only worked about 60% of our married life..and makes peanuts. I have four months of "underincome" and hey! The other 264 months I made a good living. I seriously get the comments here but my wife doesn't. Like someone said, it's going to be a long five years.

[researchnerd]

I'm sorry you're getting so much pushback from your family. We're in the same situation - I am still working, but DH was laid off two years ago, and despite having a college degree and 10+ years of experience, he can't find anything else out there. There are many, many people in the same situation, and we just have to make cutbacks and learn to live a different lifestyle. It sucks to go back to scrimping and saving every last penny (spent too many years doing that already) but that's part of being a grownup - you do what you have to do to get by.

I can't imagine dealing with this AND a family who would rather blame someone than offer help in moving forward. If your MIL has so much cash, maybe she can hire you to be her housekeeper