Budget - thoughts!

[bugasbaby]

SM good point...little buga is only 4 1/2 months but you are right..he will be 5 when we are done with this sooo I definitely will need to allocate for that. I am also taking him for swimming lessons...I should include that too right?

Hi Jem no worries...we are all learning from each other!!

[SMinGA]

I don't know about a guideline, but I vaguely recall something on the means test about having to explain/document if over $130 or so per month per child?

I don't claim that much, not even for 3 kids. Just actual school supplies, the occasional field trip, etc. No extra school activities.

[JEM]

I don't know about a guideline, but I vaguely recall something on the means test about having to explain/document if over $130 or so per month per child?

I don't claim that much, not even for 3 kids. Just actual school supplies, the occasional field trip, etc. No extra school activities.

Maybe I'll tinker with putting $125/mo. for both kids total. Many months we'll spend less, but then around back to school time, buying school supplies and paying for all those things at the beginning of the year is a lot more than $125.

[SMinGA]

So it is a little Buga afterall LOL. I would say you're doing well if you've factored baby expenses in the budget you listed.

[bugasbaby]

Yea...I'm a super coupon clipper and always look for deals on diapers and formula. I do stock up when there are sales on those things. His swimming lessons are about $75 a month so I think I will be ok with that.

for whatever reason I cannot get into the PM so..have a good night!!!!

[debtinohio]

My opinion based on my experience...

Mortgage: $936 - Fine
Co-op Maintenance $765 - Fine
Homeowner's insurance: 40 - Fine
Electricity: 100 - Fine
Cell phone/pager: 105 - Fine (mines $165 approved)
Cable/Internet/Phone 175 - Fine
Home Maintenance: 100 - Fine (I have this same amount)
Food: 500 - Fine
Household items (non-food items): 100 - - Fine
Hygiene supplies: 50 - Fine
Clothing: 100 - Fine
Laundromat, detergent, softener, etc.: 40 - This should be under household items above and kept at $100
Prescriptions and "OTC" medications: 75 - You should take the IRS amount for this, it's higher
Recreation & entertainment: 125 - This is high, I was allowed 0 others have $75-100, it just depends on the trustee
Presents for holidays, birthdays, etc.: 100 - This most likely won't go, I have 0 for this
Charitable contributions: 22 - Maybe - depends on who and how long you've been doing it.
Auto Insurance: 140 - Fine
Car Payment $ 521 - Fine
Gasoline: 160 - Fine
Tires: 25,Auto repairs: 50,Vehicle maintenance: 50,Vehicle tax & registration: 30 - These 4 should be under 1 'Auto Maintenance' category, and they will never allow $155/month in auto maintenance for a car that's $521/month, if it's for a high-mileage paid for car, perhaps.
Haircuts: 25 - Per month, this is high.
Work lunches: 125 - This should be put under food, otherwise it draws unnecessary attention to it.
Pet food/supplies: 40 - Fine

[bugasbaby]

Hi there

thanks for the input!!!!!!

Laundromat, detergent, softener, etc.: 40 - This should be under household items above and kept at $100 - I actually have to go to the laundry mat and pay $40 a month...I do not dry clean anything. The detergent and softener I can keep under the household


Prescriptions and "OTC" medications: 75 - You should take the IRS amount for this, it's higher - I will take a look


Recreation & entertainment: 125 - This is high, I was allowed 0 others have $75-100, it just depends on the trustee...I am going to adjust this down to $75 for son's swimming lessions

Presents for holidays, birthdays, etc.: 100 - This most likely won't go, I have 0 for this....hmmm....I thought this would be ok....

Charitable contributions: 22 - Maybe - depends on who and how long you've been doing it....I've been sending Childrens Intl for years...I cannot stop sending...I'd figure something out

Tires: 25,Auto repairs: 50,Vehicle maintenance: 50,Vehicle tax & registration: 30 - These 4 should be under 1 'Auto Maintenance' category, and they will never allow $155/month in auto maintenance for a car that's $521/month, if it's for a high-mileage paid for car, perhaps....got check this out...oil changes, registration, inspection and tires are some thing we do have receipts for...

Haircuts: 25 - Per month, this is high. Hubby gets a hair cut every month and needs to clean cut for work...

Work lunches: 125 - This should be put under food, otherwise it draws unnecessary attention to it....ok I will make an adjustment

[debtinohio]

Leave the charitable, try to pad some of the other expenses to take care of your gifts, etc. Don't leave money on the table for food, clothing, etc. Try to take the full IRS amounts. This way, you can pad it enough to get what your're looking for while still funding your plan. The less attention you draw to your budget, the better.

This is mine, approved, for a family of 5.

House $1816
RE Taxes $420
Electric/Heating Gas $310
Water/Sewer $90
Telephone $65
Alarm $40
Cell $160
Cable/Internet $115
Home Maintenance $100
Food $720
Clothing $75
Laundry/Drycleaning $50
Medical/Dental $50 (I have $400 going into an HSA outside of this though under my insurance costs)
Gas/Transportation/auto repair $315
Recreation/Clubs $110
Homeowners Insurance $80
Car Insurance $138
Student Loan $235
Vet $30

That's it, that's all of my actual schedule J.

I have the 2 car payments inside the plan:

Car Pmt $599
Car Pmt $600 (reduced to $460 in 1 year)

I stopped doing drycleaning to save money, now shop at Aldi & Walmart for food, the home phone is only $44 and I've gotton Electric/Gas down to $215 by really trying to conserve but the car insurance and house taxes have already gone up about $100/month total. It's a give and take to make stuff work. We also get to keep work bonuses & tax refunds so that helps with vacations/gifts/savings.

[bugasbaby]

Thank you!! This was my first run through so I will make changes. I've finally come to grips with the fact I have yo do this....all your help is greatly appreciated. I definitely need to do more research too

Thanks again

[Momof123]

We are working on our numbers too. We filed and CH7 discharged in 8/05 so we will have to go the CH13 route. Family of 4

Mortgage 839.00
car payment 235.00
car insurance 153.00
electric 125.00
phone 85.00
cable 85.00
water and sewer 50.00
gas for cars 480.00 ( not sure why yours is only 160.00??) is ours too high??
food 700.00
household items 100.00
clothing 100.00
home maintenance 100.00

what else am I missing and what am I allowed??
the gas amounts kinda of throw me, dh and I have to fill up twice a week??

I also did the means test and we are negative. Not sure but will we only have to pay the trustee and attorney through our plan??


total 3052.00
take home pay 3400.00

[momofthree]

We are working on our numbers too. We filed and CH7 discharged in 8/05 so we will have to go the CH13 route. Family of 4

Mortgage 839.00
car payment 235.00
car insurance 153.00
electric 125.00
phone 85.00
cable 85.00
water and sewer 50.00
gas for cars 480.00 ( not sure why yours is only 160.00??) is ours too high??
food 700.00
household items 100.00
clothing 100.00
home maintenance 100.00

what else am I missing and what am I allowed??
the gas amounts kinda of throw me, dh and I have to fill up twice a week??

I also did the means test and we are negative. Not sure but will we only have to pay the trustee and attorney through our plan??


total 3052.00
take home pay 3400.00

Our means test was negative by over $1000 a month, and we were just basically told that if we wanted to file, we had to "make the numbers work to support a plan payment." I asked if we could just pay the attorney and trustee fees and was told that that was considered filing in "bad faith," so we are paying our car payment thru the plan. If your means test is negative, but you don't qualify for ch.7, then they will use your schedules I & J to determine your DMI.

At our 341, the trustee warned our attorney that only paying secured debt and 0% to secured creditors is getting closer scrutiny and that there is a judge in our district who is siding with the trustee in these cases when they object. However, she felt that in our case, our "totality of circumstances" didn't indicate bad faith, and she reluctantly approved our plan. Our attorney was totally ready to go to bat for us though; finding the right attorney is key.

[ssmdem]

If your means test is negative, but you don't qualify for ch.7, then they will use your schedules I & J to determine your DMI.

Still learning here - how could that happen? How would you NOT qualify for a CH 7 if your means test is negative?

[SMinGA]

If you have filed ch. 7 in the past 8 years, you cannot file ch. 7 again. So if you need bankruptcy relief, you must make a 13 work.

We are in that situation - and had to find more income to be in a situation where our regular expenses/bills were less than our net income. And as such that will allow us to do a ch. 13. Another way of making the #'s work is with a car loan. Say you really don't have DMI, but you have 2 years left on a $400/mo car loan. That can become a $400/mo ch. 13 payment. 3-5 years, depending on over or under median, paying the loan off & trustee fees. And a little for unsecured if you go 5...

Still learning here - how could that happen? How would you NOT qualify for a CH 7 if your means test is negative?

[SMinGA]

Gas will depend on how much someone drives. If you both drive alot such as for your daily commute, then you'll have more than someone who lives closer to work. You do NOT want to know how many miles hubby & I do each week.

The means test can also be negative because it uses IRS #s where some of your actual may be lower. For someone trying to qualify for 7 this helps. For someone needing to do a 13, make sure your atty includes your actual expenses on schedule J.

We are working on our numbers too. We filed and CH7 discharged in 8/05 so we will have to go the CH13 route. Family of 4

Mortgage 839.00
car payment 235.00
car insurance 153.00
electric 125.00
phone 85.00
cable 85.00
water and sewer 50.00
gas for cars 480.00 ( not sure why yours is only 160.00??) is ours too high??
food 700.00
household items 100.00
clothing 100.00
home maintenance 100.00

what else am I missing and what am I allowed??
the gas amounts kinda of throw me, dh and I have to fill up twice a week??

I also did the means test and we are negative. Not sure but will we only have to pay the trustee and attorney through our plan??


total 3052.00
take home pay 3400.00

[SMinGA]

The charity won't be an issue - based on the small amount you stated and your indication you can back that up. Charity/tithing can't be forced out unless its something extreme and/or brand new. As in it looks like you started tithing $500/mo just before filing to keep your payment low.

Entertainment & holiday/gift expenses are generally allowed - though the amounts should be reasonable. I think it may depend on the overall figures though. If you're at or above the IRS limits, documentation or not, on everything you may have a harder time getting these categories thru. But if our #s overall are reasonable based on your district & family size (your atty will know what is reasonable) then it should be fine.

As for categorizing things together, your attorney will know how to fill in your schedule J (expenses) and there is no harm in breaking it down for your own purposes in whatever way works best for you.

Last, it seems common for those who are proposing a significant payback to unsecured to have very little argument from the trustee about their expenses. Assuming again nothing extreme or unreasonable.

Thank you!! This was my first run through so I will make changes. I've finally come to grips with the fact I have yo do this....all your help is greatly appreciated. I definitely need to do more research too

Thanks again