Budget Questions...baby, Truck Driver issues

[Licoriceky2]

[SMinGA]

For #3, I broke my figures down into groceries (food only), personal care (deoderant, shampoo, occasional haircut, etc.) and household needs (cleaning supplies, paper products, etc.). Overall though, my figures are within guidelines for the IRS standards of food & clothing.

For #2, does your hubby receive a per diem reimbursement from his employer? If so, are you counting the extra income AND the expense? You can't count one and not the other. My hubby is not a truck driver, but does have a job where he is paid mileage reimbursement & it shows on his checks. Our attorney said we offset that by showing 'business expenses' of an equal amount in other. That is really gas $ and vehicle maintenance from driving ~250 miles per week for work.

For #1, how old is your infant? I can understand the attorney's argument that formula is a temporary expense. I never used formula, but I'm guessing you'll only use it til your infant is 12-18 months old? You may not be able to control the cost too much right NOW but it will be a moot point depending on when you file, and when you'll no longer buy it.

I am a family of 5 - 2 adults and kids ages 8, 10, 11. We spend about $100-125/week on actual groceries. I don't buy fast food for lunch often, but bring things to work to make my lunches. We shop from a grocery list, and try to avoid buying/cooking more than we need as leftovers tend to go to waste in our house.

[debtinohio]

Did you do the online means test?

http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/nolo/

This will give you some of the standard amounts for housing/food/clothes.

That baby formula should be done by year 1, the diapers year 2 so it might just be tight for a while until those are done.

Find an attorney who is willing to fight to get you your ACTUAL budget or close to it. Some just want to submit a plan that they know will be confirmed with little effort on their part.

[NoTomatoCan]

1. So, how do you figure formula? Diapers & Wipes? Is this an issue? How do you claim and budget for this?

We included the formula costs in our food costs, with the argument being that, as others have pointed out, the formula costs are temporary, and if you are spending $190/month then that is probably the only thing that the baby is eating at that point. (I remember the days of buying 2 of the Enfamil containers at Sam's Club for a few weeks in a row. BIG incentive to move off of formula!)

We included diapers in "Clothing" and included wipes in with "Personal Care Products and Services". We were pretty close to IRS guidelines on all those items (some a bit over). No objections yet.

2. Husbands an OTR truck driver gone about four days (gone full 24 hours at a time) a week. During this time he usually eats at fast food places due to the inability to refrigerate/heat food. Generally speaking he spends about $50.00 a week for food while on the road. My attorney said that this would not fly.
Can you claim/budget for this expense? Is this “reasonable and necessary”? If so what are your thoughts as to costs/budget?

If they are legitimate expenses, and you have some documentation (receipts, debit card statements, etc...) to back them up, you can always make your case to the Trustee. Of course I would expect that the specific "Food" portion of your budget would be lower because your husband is not eating at home for those meals.

I am not a truck driver, but I did have a category for "Work Lunches". I spend approximately $50 per month on work lunches that, due to my position in the company, simply can not be avoided. This equates to only 5-6 lunches a month, but it adds up. I did not have any issue with this from the Trustee.

3. As for groceries, just edible items, what is an acceptable figure? We eat at home so little, I have no idea what we would need to budget for to live for a month. My attorney seems to be unable or unwilling to give me a figure that is considered acceptable or normal for this category. We are in the Midwest so groceries are reasonable, or more reasonable than per say California or Hawaii. Obviously I want to maximize this area of the budget as much as possible, but I do not want a problem.

As was already suggested, you should take a look at the IRS guidelines for the Means Test. It will give you an idea of what standard categories are looked at. For example, there isn't a "Groceries" category, but rather it is broken down into categories like Food, Housekeeping supplies, Apparel & services, Personal care products & services, Miscellaneous. This was a tricky one for us as I had a good idea of how much I spent each month on "groceries" but had to spend some time breaking our expenses out into the specific categories.

Neither attorney was totally able to answer my questions regarding same.

As DebtinOhio points out, make sure you get an attorney who will fight for your actual budget. It may simply be that if this was just the initial "free visit" then neither attorney dug that deep on the questions you asked.

One good thing to understand is that each district (and trustee) is different. So my experiences with what flies in SE Michigan may differ from what flies in your district. So while this forum is one of the best resources on the web for all BK information, nothing beats a good attorney who is well versed in the specifics of your particular state/district/trustee.

[NoMoreCards]

A few posters have said to find a attorney that will work with your actual budget. But please keep in mind this budget must be realistic. For example, 1500 for food for 2 people per month would not be considered realistic.

The IRS guidelines are a real good place to look to see what type of numbers they are expecting and a place to aim for while making your budget.

All the best.

I just wanted to add that if you can prove higher expenses for some things, they do allow that. For example my area's standard rental/mortgage payment was lower than my mortgage. I was able to use the actual mortgage numbers for this area.

[SMinGA]

This is a good point, one I think is worth repeating.

An attorney should be willing to fight for you on some reasonable and actual expenses, but even the best of attorneys cannot 'fix' your budget if you spend more than you bring in. You have to address that, by increasing income or decreasing expenses. From your other posts, I get the impression that increasing income really is not an option. So you MUST MUST MUST decrease expenses. You simply cannot afford what you want to keep spending on food, clothing, etc.

A few posters have said to find a attorney that will work with your actual budget. But please keep in mind this budget must be realistic. For example, 1500 for food for 2 people per month would not be considered realistic.

[lrprn]

It's not like your baby is going to stop eating once he/she moves to solid foods. The trustee has to give you something to feed the baby for the duration of your plan. Your lawyer needs to push back on this.

[momofthree]

You've already posted your budget in another thread, which shows that you currently spend $2000 more each month than you make. Much of that budget, the trustee will consider "fluff" that you can do without. You have approx $1200 a month going to food for a family of 3 and that's not including household supplies and personal care items. You will have to figure out a way to cut back if you're going to make a ch. 13 work. Eating out may be a "necessity" for your dh while he's on the road, but it's a luxury when you're home.

You could probably get creative with his meals when he's on the road. If he packed an ice chest, he could probably eat out of that for 2 days and then fast food the other 2 days he's gone. That should cut that expense in half. You're going to HAVE to get creative with your budget. As you already know, whether you file bk or not, you HAVE to get your monthly expenditures under control.

It may be easier if you wait to file until your baby is a year old and no longer on formula. That is an extra $200 a month of easy savings.