Can I sell a vehice I own while under 13? Give me some ideas...

[backwoods]

I'm about six months into BK13 and until recently everything has been smooth.

Problem is this-I own an 8 year old pickup that's my only daily driver with 90K miles on it that is paid for (no lien) and things are starting to go wrong with it. It's been used hard for work/towing so I'm not surprised. It's sitting at a shop right now, undriveable, waiting for my permission to get about $1200 worth of repairs.

I don't have $1200 sitting around obviously so I'm trying to decide what to do. I've borrowed a car from work which is fine for 10 days or so but I can't drive it for the next 12 months. I have some questions:

1. I'm guessing I'm not allowed to sell it without permission from the trustee etc, but what happens if I do? Will they even find out and how?

2. What I'd like to do is trade it even up for a newer used small car or pickup to get me by for the next 15 months, at which time I'll be ready for discharge. There wouldn't be any financing involved or money exchanged so would this be allowed? I'm guessing the truck is worth 8 or 9K.

3. If I did this and the trustee get po'ed and discharges me, what are the repercussions?

At this point my fed tax debt is nearly paid off by the trustee. This tax debt was the main reason we filed as the IRS was starting to get mean(understatement). The point is, if I we do get discharged with our tax debt wiped out I could easily manage things myself as the rest of the debt is unsecured CC's etc. But what are the repercussions of an early discharge due to me doing something like selling a paid off vehicle? Do they fine you etc?

Thanks for any opinions. I still have a week or two to decide and I want to get all the ducks in a row before I pull the trigger and so something stupid.

[justdeb]

we were told we need the permission of the trustee for ANYTHING we do, including selling vehicles - as the trustee is allowed to take that money and put it to your plan. Now, with that being said, if the trustee knows its your only means of transportation and you are looking to purchase another one, he/she may tell you go ahead and sell it, provide me with proof you sold it, how much, etc - and then you are allowed XXX for another car purchase outright. Whether or not you can finance anything again depends on your plan and the trustee.

if you discharge before completion - you will owe everything that was in your plan at what it was prior to, complete with interest rate and back fees/payments owed, is my understanding. I also think regardless of discharge or not, it will remain on your record for the alloted timeframe (10 years)...but dont quote me on that one

[lrprn]

1. I'm guessing I'm not allowed to sell it without permission from the trustee etc, but what happens if I do? Will they even find out and how?

You're right - you cannot sell the truck without your trustee's prior permission. And yes, your trustee will find out - there's no hiding the sale of an asset.

Have you talked to your lawyer yet about your situation? If you haven't, then you need to right now. Your lawyer can be a great asset helping you figure out what your best options are. That's what you pay him/her for.

2. What I'd like to do is trade it even up for a newer used small car or pickup to get me by for the next 15 months, at which time I'll be ready for discharge. There wouldn't be any financing involved or money exchanged so would this be allowed? I'm guessing the truck is worth 8 or 9K.

This is a reasonable request for your lawyer to make to your trustee. However, right now you have an undriveable truck. That's going to drop its value considerably for a trade.

3. If I did this and the trustee get po'ed and discharges me, what are the repercussions?

Your trustee won't discharge you - he/she will DISMISS your case. That takes away bankruptcy protection, returns all your secured debts at the amounts currently owed and your unsecured debts in full with considerably added-on late fees and penalties going back to your filing day. You want to avoid being dismissed at all costs!

I want to get all the ducks in a row before I pull the trigger and so something stupid.

You are very smart to think ahead. Please go work with your lawyer to figure out what's the best thing to do in your situation. Don't try to go this alone! That increases the chance you could do something stupid by accident about 200%. Call your lawyer in the morning - it's the smartest thing you can do for yourself.

[backwoods]

This is a reasonable request for your lawyer to make to your trustee. However, right now you have an undriveable truck. That's going to drop its value considerably for a trade.

Call your lawyer in the morning - it's the smartest thing you can do for yourself.

Thanks for the feedback.

I realize the value of the truck will be less if it needs repaired. I'm not really concerned about replacing it with a vehicle of similar value as much as I am about just getting a cheaper vehicle that's dependable enough to get me through the next 16 months or so!

The reason I didn't address any vehicle concerns during the filing process is that the truck has been 100% dependable since new with zero downtime until now. I do all the maintenance myself. Bummer. The good thing is that my wife's car is only 3 years old so it's still relatively "new".

Also, I have called my lawyer twice and stopped by his office yesterday am. Not in, no returns on my calls. His offfice manager said he'd been busy lately. I'll keep pestering him. He's not the most personable or forthcoming guy I've dealt with. I believe he's already been paid by the trustee so I'm sure I'm not at the top of his priority list.

Another question though-am I allowed to just call the trustee's office myself and get advice from them? I have all of her contact info.

I have a week or so to decide what to do as I have an old delivery car from work I am using. Noone cares as it's the oldest on in our fleet. The only catch to this is that I'm only allowed to use it for work which means just driving back and forth from the worksite to my house.

Thanks again for the advice.

[lrprn]

Another question though-am I allowed to just call the trustee's office myself and get advice from them? I have all of her contact info.

I suggest first calling your lawyer and leaving a message that you've already tried reaching him several times, your car is not functioning, you need to make arrangements to get another one quickly, and if you don't hear back from him within 24 hours, you're calling your trustee yourself. That might move him off the dime.

If you do call your trustee directly, be sure to explain you've already tried multiple times to reach your lawyer. Your trustee may still push you back to your attorney though - that's what usually happens - so be prepared for that.

Keep us posted if you manage to break through the wall somewhere. I hope you're able to get your car problems resolved quickly.

[backwoods]

Thanks again.

I don't have much hope that anything will get done very quickly though!

[backwoods]

Finally got a return call from our lawyer.

He's telling me as long as I own the truck free & clear I can trade it off for another vehicle. Two stipulations:

1. No financing without trustee approval (as if anyone would be stupid enough to loan me $$ anyway!).
2. If I sell it outright for cash I'll have to notify the trustee.

Looks like I'm clear to trade it for another vehicle. That's a little peace of mind that I can go ahead and do it without dealing with the trustee red tape! I'm gonna pursue one other option to get it repaired. If that won't pan out then I'll stop putting money into it and dump it.