New to Forum w/???

[wannaknow]

Filed Chp 13 Jan 2010, 341 Meeting Feb 2010 (piece of cake), awaiting confirmation by April 1st in SE Michigan.

Trustee objected to childcare expenses @850 per month for one child in daycare and two in latchkey (and this doesn't include summer camp expenses). I was surprised by this objection, but I supplied the information (proof of expenses) to my attorneys office and am awaiting the final confirmation from the Trustess office, I guess. I actually pay 884 per month so its actually more expensive than I had listed on my expense schedules. The trustee also wants all of my payments when each of my 401K loans end while I'm in the chapter 13, that sucks.

Were you able to motion the trustee to retain your same payment throughout the chapter 13 when your 401K loans ended? Due to increased expenses or due to expenses not reported at the onset? I didn't list any summer camp expenses even though my kids go every year, I didn't list any school expenses for trips, supplies, lunches etc., I didn't list any expenses for gifts or misc expenses etc. Does this make sense and is this a stategy I can use to "keep" my money when my loans expire?

[newbie2]

Welcome to the forum. I am also in the same district, and from my experience the trustee has wanted everything that they can get their hands on :-)

That doesn't mean however that you and your attorney can't sit down around the time your 401K payments end and take a new look at your expenses and amend your plan. Whether the trustee will agree to an amended plan is something that remains to be seen.

Clearly if you have additional legitimate expenses that put you in a position to not make your plan successful it will have to be addressed.

[NoTomatoCan]

Increasing payments to the trustee once your 401k loans are paid off is a pretty standard thing. That money now goes to your DMI, so it belongs to the trustee.

If you have legitimate expenses that have changed/increased since you initially filed, then yes, you can probably get some of that offset.

Why didn't you list any of the legitimate school expenses for your kids in your original plan? Also, not sure summer camp will be viewed as a necessary living expense.

You can always petition to ammend your plan in the future if expenses increase, but I wouldn't bank on this as a strategy unless those expenses are legitimate.

[SMinGA]

Perhaps it would be better to show your misc/school supplies/school lunches/etc. expenses now. Going up in payment when the 401k loan ends is standard, but you'll also be able to amend if expenses change.

Personally, though I understand its not 'necessary' I am trying to do summer camp for my kids this year. Its the one thing I can do for them to add a little something special to their summer. Sitting home all day for 10 weeks because their parents (us) have financially erred seems like undue punishment. But I don't have lofty expectations. There is an affordable camp not far away, at $375/kid for a week. Much better than most I've researched. And I've applied for a 50% scholarship. Fingers crossed - will know in a few weeks. Had to put down $75 each to reserve their spots, will get that back if the scholarship is denied. So leaves a balance of just over $300 if all works out. That will come by being conservative in other areas & a few extra hours here & there. I took a 2nd job last fall (included that info in the plan) and part of the income is tips. My atty rounded down what I expect to make in tips, so 'good' weeks help with the extra.

[wannaknow]

Thanks for the info. Yes, there all legitimate expenses, I would never misrepresent my expenses due to the extreme fear of prison and because they're actual expenses we didn't list. I didn't list them as expenses because it wouldn't decrease the amount we have to pay into the chapter 13 and I just learned about them from this great forum.

We have two cars, mortgage arrears, and SOM taxes in the plan, which is also for 60 extremely long months. Who in their right mind thought that 60 months of invasion into ones personal finances was a great idea???

Please let me say that I am the one who got my family into this mess were in and it was the most difficult (one of) things I've ever had to do (filing bk) after years of excellent credit and doing what I wanted w/o questions. I'm highly educated, adequately employed, and so is my spouse, so the embarrassment of having to answer to someone to justify actual expenses is mindboggling to me. We both work year round so were are the kids to go during the summer? No one would be willing to watch kids for free all summer!

Plus, I just learned about adding those expenses while lurking on the site for the past week. My atty didn't mention them either, but I think we reduced my payment amount as much as we could in order to make the plan work.

My payment will be 1100 bi-weekly for 60 long months, ugh. But on the bright side, we'll be debt free, with the exception of student loans of course.

[SMinGA]

Wannaknow, I see what you're saying... You need to pay a minimum of $X into your plan to cover the mortgage arrears and taxes. Based on that - you can't lower your payment below a certain point and still have a feasible plan?

If I'm reading that right, then the main question is can you manage until the first 401k loan is paid off? If so, then amending your expenses at that time is about the best you can do.

I am surprised that the trustee would question your daycare costs. Unless he/she thinks your amounts are unreasonable for your area? People who have been out of the daycare scene for too long just don't know what its like. Perhaps get some quotes from other places to show your figures ARE reasonable?

[wannaknow]

Exactly SMinGA, we can manage the plan until the each of them are paid off. I just realized from reading these threads that we have a basis to amend the plan in the future due to expenses we will incur that wasn't listed as expenses from the onset. My trustee's objection letter stated that we overstated our childcare expenses and our plan fails to include all disposalbe income, I was in disbelief. I quickly supplied proof, even though it was also on my 2008 tax returns as well, of all childcare expenses paid since filing my petition and it was understated by 34 bucks. I will get comparable quotes, but I can't do anything about the latchkey expenses and we already receive a multi-student discount.

[SMinGA]

The 'lack of all disposable income' could have been due to a minor error. Like your atty may have done the math wrong by a few dollars. Such as if your schedule I/J income less expenses was $2400 and he calculated your plan payment to be $2393. (Based on $1100 biweekly, its about $2393/mo average.)

One of our objections was something about how our atty worded his compensation in the plan... Much of it boils down to dotting the i's and crossing the t's properly I think.