DMI income not enough for 13 and make to much for a 7

[Hammer]

This isn't making sense. You say you have a car loan with $13,839 in payments remaining and a $22,000 tax bill. That's $35,839. 60 payments of $1295 = $77,700. Why would you need to pay that much to the plan? To repeat Newbie's question, are there assets you are trying to keep that aren't within your state's exemptions? Is there other secured debt you haven't mentioned?

My logic could be flawed, but here's how I see it assuming you don't have more secured debt and are not trying to keep assets: Your current DMI of $385 x 60 months = $23,100. Add to that 14 months in 401k loan payments that you can contribute after the loan is paid (14 x $790 = $11,060) and you can pay $34,160 into the plan over 60 months. Not quite enough to fund a plan. Can you delay filing for a while so you can pay down the car and 401k a little more? How about letting the bank have the car and buying a less expensive one? I believe you can reject the lease in BK and your obligations to the landlord becomse unsecured debt. So, if you can get a cheaper place to live, you could increase your DMI to help fund a Chap 13 Plan.

If your attorney is estimating such a high payment because are trying to keep assets, you will have to give them up if you want to file BK.

P.S. after seeing your last response: You may be able to cram down that car loan. I'm not sure of the time requirements. Try searching the boards for info.

I'm not trying to keep anything other than my truck which I really don't think I can move because of thehigh miles, I tried to get a cheeper ride , but with the miles and my credit, no luck. Thanks for the help..

[LALADY]

I'm not talking Chapter 13.

In your calculations for a Chapter 7, were the 401k loan payments taken as an expense giving you the DMI of $385? If not, when recalculating for purposes of Chapter 7, what is your DMI if you take off your 401k loan payments.

This is important question since you state "or default on my 401K paln, which I can't unless I lose my job and if that happens this is all a moot point....."

[biotechsolution]

you need to break down what deductions you have.
gross over 10K per month but you are only taking home
half, less than 5K.

what is taken out of your check?

you must have something that is indicating to your attorney
that you have more disposable income.

[Hammer]

???

first, thank you for your input....I'm not sure what you are asking me, both lawyers have gone through means test with me and both times they have the 401k numbers in as a secure debt, and as a secured debt my DMI is 395.00/385.00 I'm feel I'm getting dumber ever time I post ....sorry..

i know you know what you are talking about and asking, but I just can't wrap my arms around it.

[LALADY]

Ok, that's what I'm asking. In my case, the numbers were not part of the means test and it became critical since a motion to dismiss was filed in my Ch7.

So, it looks like Ch7 may be out for you.

Don't feel dumb! You can't learn if you don't ask. And, it sometimes is difficult to understand what people are asking, etc.

[LadyInTheRed]

I'm not trying to keep anything other than my truck which I really don't think I can move because of thehigh miles, I tried to get a cheeper ride , but with the miles and my credit, no luck. Thanks for the help..

If your DMI is $385 (after making the 401k payment and child support, right?), your truck is underwater and you have only $35,839.60 in secured debt and tax debt, how does your attorney get a $1,295 required plan payment? If you can't answer that, you aren't dumb, you just need to ask more questions of your attorney.

[Hammer]

you need to break down what deductions you have.
gross over 10K per month but you are only taking home
half, less than 5K.

what is taken out of your check?

you must have something that is indicating to your attorney
that you have more disposable income.

I have no other income , i do have other bills with a specail needs child that I have no idea how I will take care of when things happen......

4550.00 every two weeks

Fed Tax 929.00 if I pay this amount I will have a tax refund of $90.00 for the year 2010 according to the IRS
State tax 258.09
FICA 278.26
Health INS 35.23
Medicad 65.08
401K loan 396.38
401K MIN 90.47

2052.51 every two weeks

[Hammer]

If your DMI is $385 (after making the 401k payment and child support, right?), your truck is underwater and you have only $35,839.60 in secured debt and tax debt, how does your attorney get a $1,295 required plan payment? If you can't answer that, you aren't dumb, you just need to ask more questions of your attorney.

I have 44K and some change of unsecured debt

Fed tax bill of 18,800
State State Bill of 4750.00
and 23,000.00 on my truck

[LALADY]

What is 401k min? Is that a contribution?

[Hammer]

What is 401k min? Is that a contribution?

yes it is...

[LALADY]

That would give you approx $200 mo DMI (if you haven't added that into your calcs on coming up with DMI yet). Don't know if in a 13 if trustees like your repaying 401k loan and making a contribution as well. Wouldn't do anything with that contribution though until an attorney advises.

[Hammer]

That would give you approx $200 mo DMI (if you haven't added that into your calcs on coming up with DMI yet). Don't know if in a 13 if trustees like your repaying 401k loan and making a contribution as well. Wouldn't do anything with that contribution though until an attorney advises.

I agree about the trutee, that is what is coming out of my check now, the 401K contribution i can stop to help a little over the next five years,....

you know up till Nov 30 of 2009 I have never been late on a bill or written a bad check...I'm 49 years old, and the only thing I still have left is I have not written a bad check ......yet.

[LALADY]

I can so relate to you. I don't make the $ you do, but then I don't have the child expenditures you do either. Your reasons for robbing your 401k are different than mine - I did to pay off credit card debt. My situation is very close to yours, however, when it comes to the 7/13 issue, but the difference is I'm in the midst of a BK. You're trying to resolve it upfront, which gives you more time than it gives me. I'm under the clock of the court in figuring out what to do. Keep posting. Someone may think of something you're missing.

[LALADY]

On pg 1 you say you have unsecured debt 64, but page 2 you say 44.

Can you in one post one list of all debt (with secured or unsecured in parentheses behind it) plus a list of your expenses?

[SMinGA]

Not sure if this has been covered -but when did you buy your truck? If over 2 1/2 years ago (910 days) then its possible to 'cram down' the loan to pay off only what it is worth now.

A few other very minor details - the BK paperwork is going to go with monthly income, not bi-weekly. You're going off of $X every 4 weeks. Your average would be NetCheck x 26/12. Its a mathematical thing, and is annoying since things are due monthly. But if you ultimately managed a successful 13 plan your district would probably be able to deduct 1/26 of the annual payment per check. Would help a little with spreading things out based on how you're actually paid.

When calculating what you could afford to pay into a plan, did you consider what you're paying now on your truck? If it must be paid off in the plan, you would not be making a separate vehicle payment.

I see ~$23,500 in tax debt above with fed + state. But on page 1 you said something about $22,000. I'm not sure if this is the same debt, just approximated or if you're expecting to owe more when you file 2009 taxes. So its either $23,500 total or ~$45,500 soon. Plus your truck so if the tax debt is the $45k then the 1295 x 60 = $77,700 makes sense.

And in another post I think LaLady was pointing out that a plan can 'step' to a higher payment when your 401k loan repayment ends. (Payment of $385 for 14 months, then payment of $1175 for 46 months.) But at present that is not quite enough to get you where you need to be.