Can I derive my disposable monthly income solely from a crammed down auto loan.

[optimistic1]

I have been religously biting all of my fingernails off on this one.

To properly fund my Ch.13 I need about 300/month, based on my debts.

My auto loan qualifies for a cram down.

I dont really have $300 extra per month, but I would when the auto loan is crammed down.

I basically want to fill out my schedule I and J to have basically as close to zero as I can be, then free up the auto loan by bifurcation and fund the plan solely with that money.

Is this possible? Have you done something similar?

If I cant do this, I will probably be sued as I cant file a Ch.7 for years and years.

[tigergem]

Well. I think it would work. Basically what you are saying is you want the money you normally pay to your car loan to go to your CH 13 payment, right? I guess that would work. I mean, why wouldn't it? You're not going to include a crammed down and included car payment in your schedule budget anyway. I very scrupulously planned for my cram down in my plan so that I am not paying a penny more than I have to. And my plan payment all going to my crammed down widget loan and my IRS debt from last year. Unsecured are getting less than 1%. So yeah, I think you can make that work. I made mine work, I mean so far - - considering I am not actually confirmed yet - - and I didn't even file the motion to value collateral WITH the petition. I filed it a little bit later, a couple of weeks maybe. Not for any particular reason, other than just being slow, methodical and careful.

[justbroke]

Huh? Anyhow, I did look at various things to increase my (actual) DMI (disposable monthly income) based upon the cramdown of my vehicles in my Chapter 13. It was important, actually, to keep one of the cars because it provided me more DMI ($489 - crammed down payment) since I was very negative DMI and needed the extra money.

So... yes, you could use the cramdown to "squeeze" more money out of your plan but on Form B22C, it won't affect the DMI, because you're just moving the money between Line 47 and Line 28/29. But, it does affect how much money you have in your budget.

I hope you understand that part, because it took me days to figure it out... don't tell anyone.

[tigergem]

Jinx. Did we just say the same exact thing but a completely different way?

[optimistic1]

Im sorry if I am not getting to the point clearly enough, or explaining it better.

If the means shows me under median, and my schedule I and J essentially leave 0 left, granted my car payment as it stands currently is included in the expenses reported. Im not even sure if you still would list a crammed down auto somewhere in the expense schedule, but I know you would list in the "plan".

By bifurcating the auto loan and at a crammed down value and interest rate, it would basically eliminate the car payment from my budget, and it would then be what I have left each month to fund my plan.

Can I do that? I dont see how I could have enough each month to fund a plan, but the auto loan is key in my situation, it would allow all of my secured claims to be paid in full, and it would still allow 10-20% to unsecured claims, all in 36 months. This is what I am betting on, I am just hoping my eventual attorney will agree, and at the same time listen to someone who understands BK better than the average consumer.

[stephkb]

I'm not familiar with the term 'cramdown' but it sounds like the way our plan worked out. Our car loan was $450/month. Now that we're into bankruptcy we no longer pay the car loan directly but send $350/month to our trustee. We actually ended up $100 better out of the deal.

[tigergem]

I think you are explaining it fine. I think you are thinking too hard. What you said is exactly what I did. Except I did not include the regular payment in my budget or expense schedules at all, because the bifucated secured loan was in the plan... (which included the crammed down value and Till rate in my plan repayment), and everything has worked out perfectly. The amount that might have been included in the budget for the regular payment would have put me waaaaay in the negative on my DMI. But if you think about it, the other debts that you are including in your schedules (like credit cards and medical bills) don't go into your budget and expense schedules, so why should this one? Right?

I left it off of the budget and expense schedules completely because it was going into the plan.

[optimistic1]

Yeah I have a problem with thinking too hard. Well the hard part is talking to an attorney about it, I kinda just dont want say anything. Fill out my budget, leave 0 left and see if they call me, at which point I will propose it. Otherwise Im screwed, I will be on the run from creditors until the Mayan Calendar ends.

[justbroke]

Otherwise Im screwed, I will be on the run from creditors until the Mayan Calendar ends.

That's not as far away as you think.

[tigergem]

You know. I was thinking about that. What if the 2012 thing happens and my plan isn't scheduled to end until 2015... do you think the trustee will discharge me early?

I'm thinking about not making my December 2012 payment quite as early as I have been doing so far. Like nearly a month early. And just waiting until December 22nd that year.

[optimistic1]

If you qualify at that point you could convert, if it would be advantageous to do so of course.

[optimistic1]

I'm not familiar with the term 'cramdown' but it sounds like the way our plan worked out. Our car loan was $450/month. Now that we're into bankruptcy we no longer pay the car loan directly but send $350/month to our trustee. We actually ended up $100 better out of the deal.

Ok, well that is good news, I am in slightly higher spirits now.